mattpete105 Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 We have a 2003 CH613 with a 460, and now just purchased a 2002 CH613 with a 460XT engine with 350k miles. Haven't picked it up yet, but assuming it hasn't been detuned by Mack or something stupid. Is there a way to copy the XT tune over to the other truck? I have worked with some automotive and ag tractor tuning, using handhelds and laptop tools. No idea what I'd need for doing a Mack ECM. Can you buy the equipment and software to do it, or do you have to find someone with old Mack software on their computer to do it for you? Thanks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 The easiest way would be to ask the local dealership to do a horsepower request and see if corporate Mack will turn on the XT program for the new truck. If they will it’s Usually around $300 for the download and a couple hours labor to do it . There are ways around this but it requires dealership access and someone who knows how to trick the Mack mainframe into thinking your installing a new engine ecm on the XT truck . All the old guys who did this stuff where I used to work are gone or retired. I don’t know if the can even program a grey engine ecm any more . Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-485269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattpete105 Posted December 28, 2021 Author Share Posted December 28, 2021 Thanks for the response Mackpro. I guess what I had been reading before posting was that it was hard to get the XT program from Mack, and not likely. I thought maybe if I already had the tune available in another truck, it would be something that parameters could be copied from. I am picking up the vibe that it probably isn't possible/Mack has the ECU's locked down. What about swapping ECUs between the trucks, basically switching which truck has the XT program. Assuming that probably isn't feasible either, tied to VINs or issues with the trucks not being spec'd the same. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 1 hour ago, mattpete105 said: Thanks for the response Mackpro. I guess what I had been reading before posting was that it was hard to get the XT program from Mack, and not likely. I thought maybe if I already had the tune available in another truck, it would be something that parameters could be copied from. I am picking up the vibe that it probably isn't possible/Mack has the ECU's locked down. What about swapping ECUs between the trucks, basically switching which truck has the XT program. Assuming that probably isn't feasible either, tied to VINs or issues with the trucks not being spec'd the same. Nope the vecu would not like having its mate! If you have both from a doaner truck it may work! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 28, 2021 Share Posted December 28, 2021 can't you just order an EECU for the existing XT truck and put it in the non XT truck, and turn in the EECU from that truck as the core and be done??? I think the injectors and turbo and cam key are the same... also... back in the day.... we couldnt warranty that if the driveline wasnt upgraded, to a 2018 tranny and 200 series carriers due to the torque.. so if you have a lesser tranny and 93/93 carriers, you will probably ware it out soon.. I look forward to more opinions about what I posted... jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: can't you just order an EECU for the existing XT truck and put it in the non XT truck, and turn in the EECU from that truck as the core and be done??? I think the injectors and turbo and cam key are the same... also... back in the day.... we couldnt warranty that if the driveline wasnt upgraded, to a 2018 tranny and 200 series carriers due to the torque.. so if you have a lesser tranny and 93/93 carriers, you will probably ware it out soon.. I look forward to more opinions about what I posted... jojo Nope the ECUs come base HP you have to reflash them with the truck it was born in! That protocol you mention there was some BS thing mack or fuller came up with due to Extra torque ! Utter BS ! Back in the day you could get a Fuller Behind a V8 ! E7 couldn't hold a candle to the torque of a 400 maxidine V8! And the meritor Diffs are tuogh as nails a mack diff these days is a waste over money unless for some reason you need a top loader diff! Edited December 29, 2021 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 got it!! yeah I always wondered how the E-9's could have lesser tranny's and 92/93 carriers... crazy... so the few of these upgrades i did many years ago were probably bogus.. I guess you can't get both ECU's from the XT and install them into the non-XT truck? Thanks 'F' I just learned something opposite of what I thought I knew... Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: got it!! yeah I always wondered how the E-9's could have lesser tranny's and 92/93 carriers... crazy... so the few of these upgrades i did many years ago were probably bogus.. I guess you can't get both ECU's from the XT and install them into the non-XT truck? Thanks 'F' I just learned something opposite of what I thought I knew... Jojo I also heard that the XT file was replaced by the standard file if you tried to reflash ! that there is NOT fact A Rumor and never tried by us as we always recommended to guys to leave it alone unless it was broke! Some of that stuff was propaganda in my mind ( Politics ) Just my opinion Bud! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 gotch'a again... i respect your opinion's. I think more like you do with many things... This was interesting... C ya,jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
880joe Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Was the XT file available on the CCRS engines? Also if the 12ms numbers on the 2 ECM's are compatable you could swap them then have the original XT truck reprogrammed back to XT file from mack as a replacement ecm. That is similar to what I just went through programming a 355/380 with a used ecm Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, 880joe said: Was the XT file available on the CCRS engines? Also if the 12ms numbers on the 2 ECM's are compatable you could swap them then have the original XT truck reprogrammed back to XT file from mack as a replacement ecm. That is similar to what I just went through programming a 355/380 with a used ecm I don't think so! All the dots must line up to reprogram an ECU its done from the Mack Main Frame It cross references the ecus and if the dots dont line up It will not proceed! And at the end of it all it asks for you to send back a Verification File to complete the job! You also At one point had to read and save the ECU Data Mileage, Hours ECT don't know if it works that way now or not haven't done this in years! It may auto fill this stuff now! Edited December 29, 2021 by fjh Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
880joe Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 I had to have the ECM replaced on my truck the pins were rotted off so there was no reading and saving of files I put a used ecm on off of a 300 went to have reprogrammed dealer said it wasn't compatible with my engine that made no sense to me because it ran without any issues just lacking a power being a 300. They gave me a range of ECM numbers that would work so I put a different one on took back to dealer and was able to put the original 355/380 file back in Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Why are Mack's so difficult to retune and/or add horsepower to? Is this a case of how the ECMs are designed or Mack/Volvo's corporate policy? Can't one of the aftermarket gurus crack the ECM? Sorry my newest Mack is a fully mechanical E7. I had a 12.7 Detroit with DDECII ecm and it was nothing to get more power out of it. You could have it done and an aftermarket guy or at a Detroit service center for very little money and almost no hassle. I think this could be done all the way up to the 14.0 liter series 60 with DDEC IV engine controls. You could also fairly easily have it reprogrammed after blocking off the EGR, although you have to go to an independent shop for this. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 (edited) Unfortunately the companys are required to make things as fool proof as possible There are 3 Letters to describe the ISSUE EPA ! Big three got slapped with a fine for dual mapping fuel systems back in the 90s ! VW pulled it off up till recently till they got there asses kicked a few years back! every one was up in the air about that one even thou our own makers had tried it earlier and got their hands slapped! The Germans fix this thou they bought up Detroit diesel ! just like the Sweeds buying up Mack! how ever the reasoning was likely different ! Volvo bought the name for sales purposes Me thinks! Edited December 29, 2021 by fjh 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 I remember on a DD 3 you could install a resister on the manifold pressure sensor and gain some response but on a later version they set it to were the ecm had to see so much vehicle speed.Yes mack trucks paid a large fine to EPA.Cat just passed the fine on to the engine buyers. Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattpete105 Posted January 3, 2022 Author Share Posted January 3, 2022 Thanks for all the info. Interesting conversations. Guess we'll just leave them both alone, and keep driving the regular 460 like a Detroit. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 The 460 XT was only for the original ETECH series. The CCRS series was like the ASET AC series with a 460P with 487 HP and a 460E with 460 HP, both were same torque at 1660 . The XT files are still showing up in the Mainframe as unchanged from 1999 on the dealership side. We saw very very few of the CCRS 460p trucks as they only made the CCRS for a couple of years before the ASET came out Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/68932-copying-460xt-tune-from-one-truck-to-another/#findComment-486439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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