Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 I have a 2003 Mack Ch613 that has been converted to a dump truck. My steer axle springs are good but my bushings seem like they need replaced. When I’m loaded and I make turns that shift the load I can hear and feel a pop under my feet. I’m thinking my bushings are worn? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Does it kind of feel like the whole truck shifts to one side when turning along with a thud? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) You can jack the front up or on the ground and put a block of wood between the frame and tire. Use the power steering to push into it and watch the springs for movement. Edited January 15, 2022 by Onyx610 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 I'm guessing you have #14,500 front springs, 3 leaves... the band clamp on the end of the spring pack is basically an indicater for shifting spring's. Are they shifting? if so ... jack the truck up and support the frame. crawl under there with a sledge hammer and try to straighten the spring leaves, if you do... they are loose.. probabley 1 1/8" socket put the toughest 3/4 gun on it or 500lbft or whatever you can pull... test drive the truck "at work" and re-check e'm.... jojo 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 If those grease fittings were neglected it’s a good chance your bushings could be gone. Joey is right about them shifting and trying to re tighten them. Doesn’t cost anything for those couple of tests. Hopefully they just need tightened. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 34 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: Does it kind of feel like the whole truck shifts to one side when turning along with a thud? Yes sir it does. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: You can jack the front up or on the ground and put a block of wood between the frame and tire. Use the power steering to push into it and watch the springs for movement. I’m not following you on this? Can you give a little more detailed please. Edited January 15, 2022 by Ricky Beals Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: I'm guessing you have #14,500 front springs, 3 leaves... the band clamp on the end of the spring pack is basically an indicater for shifting spring's. Are they shifting? if so ... jack the truck up and support the frame. crawl under there with a sledge hammer and try to straighten the spring leaves, if you do... they are loose.. probabley 1 1/8" socket put the toughest 3/4 gun on it or 500lbft or whatever you can pull... test drive the truck "at work" and re-check e'm.... jojo Jojo when you say straighten the springs I’m guessing your thinking one end is bent toward opposite tire. (Just an example) and if that’s the case knock it back in line and then tighten the hell out of nut. what do you mean band clamp is an indicator for shifting springs? sorry guys this is my first truck and I’m about as green as a gourd. Edited January 15, 2022 by Ricky Beals Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 There should be two clamps on either end of the springs. They were for shipping purposes I think. They are square. They can break from shifting, rust, or just abuse. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) You can put a piece of wood on the inside of the top of the tire between it and the frame. Have someone get in the truck and turn the wheel into the wood and you watch the springs for movement. If the spring pack jumps or clunks it’s the bushings Edited January 15, 2022 by Onyx610 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Edited January 15, 2022 by Onyx610 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: There should be two clamps on either end of the springs. They were for shipping purposes I think. They are square. They can break from shifting, rust, or just abuse. I will look tomorrow but I’m thinking they are gone on both sets. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: You can put a piece of wood on the inside of the top of the tire between it and the frame. Have someone get in the truck and turn the wheel into the wood and you watch the springs for movement. If the spring pack jumps or clunks it’s the bushings We talking a 2x4 piece of wood say 3’ long. Sorry to be anal but I have never seen this done so I’m trying to understand. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Usually that top rod going through them break off. I’d imagine that if your springs are shifting the sides of that “bracket” would be bowed out. They just help keep the springs centered during shipping and install I believe. Mack says if they are broken it’s not a problem. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Good solid piece of wood and how ever long you need to to get between the tire and frame. Once you turn the wheel into it the distance will close. Your just using the power steering to help you move the axle beam which would show a loose spring pack or bushings If worn. It won’t hurt anything as long as the wood isn’t on like a abs modulator valve or something haha. Edited January 15, 2022 by Onyx610 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487084 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Ricky Beals said: Yes sir it does. Good chance it’s bushings then, we had an RD with a multi leaf spring setup and that’s what it felt like when the bushings went out. Let us know what you find tomorrow and we can go from there. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 10 hours ago, Joey Mack said: I'm guessing you have #14,500 front springs, 3 leaves... the band clamp on the end of the spring pack is basically an indicater for shifting spring's. Are they shifting? if so ... jack the truck up and support the frame. crawl under there with a sledge hammer and try to straighten the spring leaves, if you do... they are loose.. probabley 1 1/8" socket put the toughest 3/4 gun on it or 500lbft or whatever you can pull... test drive the truck "at work" and re-check e'm.... jojo Here are my springs. Only band on the set. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 some time's, I lube the u-bolt threads then back the nuts off and lube the nut and washer surfaces then retorque them. then run the truck to see if the springs are shifting, sometimes you can hear a popping sound when turning, that means they are shifting side to side. I said 3 spring leavves, you have 4... sorry about that.. between the axle beam and the block, should be a thin wedge. if so, does it look crushed or worn? I think the u-bolt's are 7/8" I will get the torque for them and post it.. jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Here they are... it's a copy of a copy i made 22 years ago.. jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Idk if it’s just the picture but the bottom 3 springs don’t look to be inline with the top one. I know those clips never touch but it looks like it might have a slight spread to it. Edited January 15, 2022 by Onyx610 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 A unusual to me and my eyes way of assembling a spring Most times the leafs get shorter as they progress thru the pack towards the axle They must be correct as it isnt the style of spring that can easily disassembled These are more normal So back to the question at hand, if this noise is only recent I would suspect something is broken or loose Jack the truck up a bit to take some weight off the axle (so dont sit the axle stands or blocks under the axle but under chassis or bumper bar or some where similar) and using a long pry bar or tyre lever stick It between the shackles ect and see what you can move I find I need to take some of the weight off the axle but not all, this makes it easier to push and lever here and there and still get a reaction Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 if the noise seems to be under your feet, my question is ; what are the rear hangers looking like? i've seen the rear spring bushing break the welds on turning the spring would slide sometimes making noise. if the rear of the spring rides in a saddle without pins , i've seen worn saddles with groves and the spring will make noise on turns also Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 55 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said: A unusual to me and my eyes way of assembling a spring Most times the leafs get shorter as they progress thru the pack towards the axle They must be correct as it isnt the style of spring that can easily disassembled These are more normal So back to the question at hand, if this noise is only recent I would suspect something is broken or loose Jack the truck up a bit to take some weight off the axle (so dont sit the axle stands or blocks under the axle but under chassis or bumper bar or some where similar) and using a long pry bar or tyre lever stick It between the shackles ect and see what you can move I find I need to take some of the weight off the axle but not all, this makes it easier to push and lever here and there and still get a reaction Paul What he has is called a “full taper leaf spring” and what you are used to seeing is called a “multi leaf spring” I believe the newer Mack’s use the tapered style now. Our 2018 granite has them. They seem to have a lot of bounce going down the road. All the other trucks we have are the multi leaf. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 What he has is called a cobbled little taper leaf some brain surgeon thinks is better that way to put more weight on on his basic 12000 pound steer axle. Guys do it, it kinda works (I guess) Think on that model truck ? I'd take a look at the cab mounts , that'd explain a clunky noise by his feet. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Beals Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Sorry guys but my son is down wiring up my shop. It’s gotten real cold here. I took this photo of the drivers rear spring bushings. something is definitely loose because when I turn and truck shifts weight to say passenger side I hear and feel a loud clunk. I feel it in my feet. Same when weight gets shifted to drivers side. Edited January 15, 2022 by Ricky Beals Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/69065-front-leaf-spring-bushings-and-pin-replacement/#findComment-487133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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