1948 Mack Model 75 Fire Truck

[VintageSmoke]

Doing a story on a Mack truck for Diesel World magazine. The owner told me it was a "1948 A75" but the serial number tags didn't back that upI have put that erroneous info to bed now thanks to a couple of helpful folks on the general discussion forum here. Now I know it's a 1948 75 fire truck that was been converted into a 5th wheel tractor. It also has a '77 Detroit 4-71 in it now. As you can see from the pic below it still looks like a Mack... and it's still fire truck red... but it's no longer as-built. I would like to honor the truck's origins by talking a little bit about the Model 75 and Mack's line of fire trucks. Can someone point me to an easily accessed source of info? The kind of stuff I'd be interested to know would be some basic technical specs for the '48 Model 75, some idea how many were built that year, what would be the most similar E-Model mach to compare it with, and how long Mack built fire appliances in-house. Also, was the '48 75 available with a diesel? I know most department back then didn't want diesels (cold starting is the impression I get) but I'd like to be able to say yea or nay on that. The guy that originally built the truck removed a seized flathead from it. He was the late Lowell Baker, by the way, a well known fixture in the 2-stroke Jimmy world, so the 4-71 was par for his course.

If I gave you a serial number, could anyone verify the production year. I'll be talking to the owner again tonite ( 2/7/22) and will ask permission to share that number.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Jim

[609albert]

Harvey Eckart has written a few great books on Mack fire apparatus with lots of great photos & info. Also Walter McCall did a book 'Fire Trucks of the 1950's. 

 The real giveaway that your mack was a fire truck is the bumper design.

[GA_Dave]

Mack model designations are a complex mixture of letters and numbers and it takes a bit to decipher them.  I will look through my collection of Mack apparatus info and get back to you tomorrow evening with the results.

[VintageSmoke]

6 hours ago, GA_Dave said:

Mack model designations are a complex mixture of letters and numbers and it takes a bit to decipher them.  I will look through my collection of Mack apparatus info and get back to you tomorrow evening with the results.

Appreciate that! I have permission to share the serial number and it's 75S 2386.

You know what the "S" is for?

Also, it was reported to me the truck was built as a "tanker" with a mid mounted pump.  What is a "tanker?"

Lowell purchased it in about 1979 from a seller in PA with only 22K miles on it but it had been derelict for a long time. The presumption was that it served in some PA FD. The engine was seized solid. Lowell didn't get around to the resto-mod until about 1995. He shortened the wheelbase and added a modern axle, removed the rear body and tank. He installed the 4-71 in front of a 13-speed Road Ranger. Both Lowell and the current owner use(d) the truck regularly to haul trucks, engines and collectable tractor at combined weights of up to 40 tons.

[67RModel]

12 minutes ago, VintageSmoke said:

You know what the "S" is for?

In non fire apparatus speak an "S" designation signifies a tandem rear axle. It probably means the same thing for fire trucks but I'm sure GA_Dave will clarify. This makes sense given a modern single axle was installed in 1995. A tanker in fire apparatus speak is just that....a large tank for carrying water to a pumper unit to use. They are used extensively in rural areas where there is no city water supply or fire hydrants to connect a pumper truck to.....

[GA_Dave]

   Okay, I was not able to do all the research I had planned on doing, but here is what I have found so far: 

The apparatus was built as an E-Series (produced from 1937-1950), depicted by the single-piece windshield combined with the sloped, V-shaped grille.  The other Series in production at that time included the L-Series (1940-1954), which featured a split windshield and a more vertical, more flat-faced grille.  The Model 75, of the E-Series, was powered by a 150 horsepower Mack "L-Head" engine of 525 cubic inch displacement.  The "S" in the production number denotes a "single reduction drive" rear axle.  The Model 75 designation was specific to that engine and a 750 gallon-per-minute Hale centrifugal pump.  Mack produced 393 Model 75's in the E-Series. 

The E-Series was available in a wide range of cab configurations, from the 2-door closed cab style above to full sedan-style 4 door cabs to open cabs, with or without doors.  It was replaced in 1950 by the A-Series, which used the same windshield, but a grille more similar to the L-Series and was produced until 1956.

Tomorrow, I will see about looking up that specific production number to see if I can discover the original owner.

[VintageSmoke]

That is very useful and helpful information, thank you. My followups would be:

1- It was handed down to the current owner that his truck had been a "tanker." Like so many things passed down like this, it could be incorrect. Could the 75 be built as a pumper OR as a tanker?  Maybe the thing to know is how much of the work Mack actually did. Were they completely fitted out at Mack, or did they go to a vendor to get whatever specific fire body they would use? Maybe if you can look up something specific via the serial number, this question might get answered definitively. The current owner would be very happy to know. He bought the truck the way it is now but is happy to know more about it's origins.

2- What was the engine number for the 525? I see one 525 ci engine listed in my resources as the "CT". Will be looking more. Could you get the Mack Lanova engine in the Model 75? This group helped me a while back with a story I did on those engines... it's online now in case you want to see. https://www.dieselworldmag.com/diesel-engines/vintage-smoke-2/

Again, I appreciate all the help from the group, especially Georgia Dave.

Always like to return the favor when I can, so if you have questions, now or later, about the life and times of the '61-80 International Scout, I have expertise in that area (published a 400 page book on the topic). Really good on the history of four-wheel drive as well, mostly in the light duty realm.

[GA_Dave]

I was unable to locate the production number of the above rig on any of my very incomplete Mack delivery lists.  As for your latest comments/questions....

1- Tanker capacities have varied greatly over the years.  In 1948, a Tanker could have held as little as 500 gallons, compared to the typical 2000 to 3000 gallons on today's tankers.  Mack, along with most builders, did not specify pumpers or tankers by their production numbers.  The rig, whether it was a pumper or tanker, was all Mack-built, or it would have had a different type of designation for the production number.  Mack built complete fire apparatus for many years and also sold fire apparatus chassis to other builders, but there were differences in the production numbers that show which was which.

2- I am not familiar with any Mack motor called a "CT", nor am I familiar with the "Lanova" engine.  The motor used in the type 75 of the E-Series was a model ENF-510A. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by GA_Dave

[yarnall]

Very interesting story about the Lanova. I have a 672 Lanova in my 1950 Mack LFT.  
They type 75 would not have come with the Lanova.  The 75 designation was specific for one engine.  I’m pretty sure it got a different model number if it has a different engine.   Mack was not building diesel fire trucks at that time.  It is possible that this truck was built as a pumper tanker or maybe just a tanker but that is a little less likely. The Mack museum would be able to tell you that. 
Mack built most of there fire bodies themselves, but there were times when they sent the chassis to another body builder like Hahn for the body to be built, but they were still consider custom Mack fire apparatus. The fact that this one is a type 75 shows that it is one of these. Other vender would build fire bodies in commercial chassis but they would have a commercial serial number starting with E.  

mike 

Edited February 10, 2022 by yarnall

[FDNYTRUCKScom]

it was built as a pumper solely by Mack...  it originally had the gas motor...   Original to Schwenksville, PA...  it was the last E model shipped in 1949, 12-30-49.   They were a Mack department right outside Allentown.

[Mark T]

8 hours ago, FDNYTRUCKScom said:

it was built as a pumper solely by Mack...  it originally had the gas motor...   Original to Schwenksville, PA...  it was the last E model shipped in 1949, 12-30-49.   They were a Mack department right outside Allentown.

That's the same truck as in the first picture ???

[VintageSmoke]

8 hours ago, FDNYTRUCKScom said:

it was built as a pumper solely by Mack...  it originally had the gas motor...   Original to Schwenksville, PA...  it was the last E model shipped in 1949, 12-30-49.   They were a Mack department right outside Allentown.

That sound you heard was my jaw hitting the floor. I know one Mack owner that is going to be very happy and this writer right along with him! My deepest thanks. Am sending you a PM.

 

[FDNYTRUCKScom]

2 hours ago, Mark T said:

That's the same truck as in the first picture ???

yes...