Shop Talk

[67RModel]

2 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

I am cautious, and I doubt someone with a clip board is going to inspect my set-up in the middle of a storm.

Yea I agree.

[mrsmackpaul]

We use a change over switch in Australia 

This flicking breakers as you blokes are doing is illegal in Australia as it is fraught with danger if people dont fully understand what they are doing

A change over switch prevents this from happening 

Linesmen and electricians have been killed in Australia numerous times by people accidentally feeding the grid

That been said I'm not casting any desperations or telling anyone what to do, just saying how it is out here

When I put change over switches in and a generator inlet I will only put lights and power on the generator 

I leave one power outlet still hooked to the mains and if home owner plugs a radio in and leaves it turned on, when the power comes back on no matter if its in the middle of the night when everyone's asleep 

The radio comes on and alerts everyone the powers back on

In some parts of Australia, like the tropics it isnt uncommon to loose power for a fortnight and most Australians have big deep freezers and it is always good to get the power going again for those to keep them frozen

Anyway enough waffle from me 

 

Paul

[Hayseed]

1 hour ago, mrsmackpaul said:

We use a change over switch in Australia

I've seen a Bloke make up a Double ended extension Cord & plug It into a Powerpoint to power up his House during a Blackout..!!

 

He Got quite Mouthy When I told Him His Suicide Cord was an Accident waiting to Happen..!!

 As Forrest gump would say; Stupid is as Stupid does..........

[mrsmackpaul]

Yeah you can only advise some people 

As my mother says, "can't reason with someone thats been unreasonable"

Not so many years ago we only switched the active in Australia but now change over switches must be double pole and switch the active and neutral 

Paul 

[Freightrain]

No matter, the transfer is never seamless.  If you have automatic, it sees the lack of incoming power, trips transfer switch and starts genset.  Once it sees incoming, it shuts off genset and resets tranfer switch.  You always have to reset clocks, etc.

I remember back 20 sum yrs, i was the only house in the neighborhood that was lit one night we had no power.

 

Like Paul mentioned, some people shouldn't mess with power.  Trying to run a house on a single 15 amp cord??  Oh geez!

 

I ran a 30 amp twist lok into only one side of my breaker box.  Enough for furnace, frig, and a few lights.  With only 30amp genset, that is good enough to survive on.

[tjc transport]

36 minutes ago, Freightrain said:

No matter, the transfer is never seamless.  If you have automatic, it sees the lack of incoming power, trips transfer switch and starts genset.  Once it sees incoming, it shuts off genset and resets tranfer switch.  You always have to reset clocks, etc.

I remember back 20 sum yrs, i was the only house in the neighborhood that was lit one night we had no power.

 

Like Paul mentioned, some people shouldn't mess with power.  Trying to run a house on a single 15 amp cord??  Oh geez!

 

I ran a 30 amp twist lok into only one side of my breaker box.  Enough for furnace, frig, and a few lights.  With only 30amp genset, that is good enough to survive on.

yup. i have an ATS now. 

befor though i used a double ended cord. turn off house main, plug cord into genset and other side to 50 amp welder plug in garage then fire up genset. 

when the streetlights come back on, turn off genset, unplug, then in house and turn on main. 

[Joey Mack]

Well after reading this thread a couple of times, I am wondering what could be wrong with my set-up, that my electrician installed?  Of course I am aware of how to flip the switches to isolate my house from the street lines..  I have used this set-up (for 12+ years) more than a dozen times, and over night at least half of those times and never noticed an issue..  

 In the picture you see an orange drop cord. That is for using something in my driveway, like a battery charger for my many vehicles, the 220v  socket with the clear door is for one of my welders.  Anyway,  do I need to add something else?  Thanks in advance for any advice..  jojo

[mowerman]

11 hours ago, Onyx610 said:

Generators are one of those things you buy and hope you never have to use it haha. One of a few things I don’t mind spending good money on to collect dust. Another would be a snow blower….

Could’ve used one here last weekend probably like you. It doesn’t really snow  a whole lot here with all the lawnmowers. I have given it to me I have never had a free snowblower. I was just thinking that when I was shoveling. Hey how come nobody gives me one of those. Yes when you need them, you need them.bob 

[mowerman]

I am going to call my electrician today and have them come and look at this thing, electric box and get some advice.. Bob

[mowerman]

Also, I heard you fellas talking about moving. I would like to do that myself but I’m done moving….. 79 miles south of here nothing but cattle and horses no cars no traffic lights also no Home Depot target or supermarket hehe town is not really cheap but everything comes  with acreage and a barn

[mowerman]

 Wellington Nevada It’s also 15 miles off the beaten path, so no sightseers and it’s about a 30 mile drive to shopping…. Yes, I would love to live there.Bob

[mrsmackpaul]

4 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

Well after reading this thread a couple of times, I am wondering what could be wrong with my set-up, that my electrician installed?  Of course I am aware of how to flip the switches to isolate my house from the street lines..  I have used this set-up (for 12+ years) more than a dozen times, and over night at least half of those times and never noticed an issue..  

 In the picture you see an orange drop cord. That is for using something in my driveway, like a battery charger for my many vehicles, the 220v  socket with the clear door is for one of my welders.  Anyway,  do I need to add something else?  Thanks in advance for any advice..  jojo

Joey Im not gunna tell any joker what they should or shouldn't do

So the common way of doing things in Australia is a change over switch, no one does what you are doing any more,  to complicated for most people to fully understand

The electrical trade is a licensed trade in Australia and it is a jailable offense for unlicensed people to do their own electrical work, rarely does it ever get that far, but plenty of people get fined each year 

So a couple of things to think about when Im yammering away here is our voltage is higher in Australia than the US so it is less forgiving when things go pare shaped

Now to generator change over switches, so the way things are done

The power goes out, you plug in and start the genny, open the switch board and flick one switch only, the switch is three position "MAINS" "OFF" GENERATOR"

The switch is on mains, you simply push the handle down going straight past off to generator

You now have power and lights running on generator in your house, there is no need to turn anything off, you cant feed back into the grid, the main switch stays on as does all the other breakers

The supply is restored to your house from the grid, you simply go out to switch board and push the handle on the change over switch back the other way thru the "OFF" to mains 

The house is now fully on mains, the genny is still running, idle it back to let cool down and if it's petrol turn the fuel off and let it run out (Joe, you'll know all that part better than me but this how I describe it to people that I have just put a change over switch in and am showing them how to use it)

Once the genny stops, unplug and roll the lead up, no need to switch anything else 

The limiting factor in running a house on a generator is the plug on the lead, 15 amp is the biggest type of plug we use in Australia for domestic type of situations,  so that would be a 30 amp lead in the States as your voltage is half of Australia's and NewZealands

Our power circuits are on 20 amp breakers and lighting is on 16 amp breakers 

We instal a breaker on generator inlet circuit of 20 amps, this to stop people over loading and melting the plug, even though it is rated at 15 amps running a 20 amp breaker allows for a short over load to stop nuisance tripping when electric motors start 

If people want more power for thier house we can install extra plugs and a three phase change over switch and they can run 15 amps per lead then which is more than most people will ever use

This most importantly keeps it safe and it also keeps it simple and makes it idiot proof as well 

Even if I know how to switch the right switches and do it in the right sequence, what happens if something happens to me, when cyclone Yassi came thru in 2011 I ended up in hospital with a busted back and wrist so Princess and the boy were left to run the show 

So by having it simple to operate they can easily restore power and or carry on as normal if things go tits up else were 

Once again Im not saying Im right or the Australian way is right or better, this is just how we do it out here

So a cyclone is the same as a hurricane except it spins the other way, like the water going down a plug hole, it spins the opposite way in the southern hemisphere,  Yassi was big like Katrina all those years ago 

Paul 

[Joey Mack]

All good Paul,, I was just curious..  I am certainly not pissy..  I always listen to smart people like yourself,  and I also respect folks from other countries..  Lots of great knowledge to be had., the world around..  You make a good point about folks today not knowing how to operate the set-up I have..   Just for the heck of it, I am going to look into a transfer switch..  I hope all is well,,  jojo

[tjc transport]

Paul, i believe the switch you are talking about is called a generator lock out switch here in the states.

[mrsmackpaul]

7 hours ago, Freightrain said:

No matter, the transfer is never seamless.  If you have automatic, it sees the lack of incoming power, trips transfer switch and starts genset.  Once it sees incoming, it shuts off genset and resets tranfer switch.  You always have to reset clocks, etc.

For seamless transfer you need a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) not the pony express

These are normally fitted to places that have a critical need for powet, hospitals, fir stations, police (some might suggest they have to much power already) controls for big plants, trains traffic lights and on and on

But these are only fitted to the circuits that need these, they have enough battery back up for 3 or 4 hours and this encasethe genny doesnt start it gives the m3chanic a few hours to get things sorted 

 

Paul 

[66dc75]

If you don't want a transfer switch you can use a sliding interlock on the front of the panel that prevents the main and the 30amp generator breakers to be on at the same time. This way you choose what circuits you want to use. The manual transfer switches limit you to 6 or 8 predetermined circuits. Stopped in Harbor Freight today and they had predator generators non inverter types for 40 percent off clearance.  I grabbed a 3500 watt for $281 to have as a spare for work. Couldn't pass that up for that price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mowerman]

After last 30 hr blackout here last week we’re fixing on buying one real soon and Paul many thanks for all your information Bob

[Quickfarms]

On 1/6/2023 at 6:52 PM, 67RModel said:

Also, I think it technically illegal by National Electric Code to use a standby generator without a transfer switch. Automatic or manual. 

Even in California all you need to do is turn the main breaker off 

[Onyx610]

38 minutes ago, Quickfarms said:

Even in California all you need to do is turn the main breaker off 

Yea If it’s a “portable” generator. He’s correct about a “standby” generator by law needing a transfer switch. 

[mowerman]

knowing absolutely nothing about them,,,i would have thought the generator,had a automatic shut off

[HarryS]

I had a sliding interlock switch as mentioned above put in along with a 30 amp plug and box a couple of months ago. The cost with materials and labor was $600.  Haven't had to use it yet which is fine with me.

[mowerman]

wise choice,now your all set

[mrsmackpaul]

4 hours ago, HarryS said:

I had a sliding interlock switch as mentioned above put in along with a 30 amp plug and box a couple of months ago. The cost with materials and labor was $600.  Haven't had to use it yet which is fine with me.

My only advise here is to test all of this out before you need it

Just to make sure it all works as expected as electricians are usually hard to get in a hurry 

 

Paul 

[Mean Green]

Here is the sliding inter lock I bought for my box it was like 60 bucks and it will not allow both the main and generator breaker to be on at the same time  I also mounted a box on the outside that has my tails in it I just have to connect 3 2/0 wires with cam locks and I’m ready to go

[Mean Green]

Here’s the generator I have for the house 150 kw 3306 cat came out of a hospital caught fire on the head bad wire or fuel line or something  sat in our yard for years and caught it before it went for scrap its overkill but I only have like 300 bucks in it