Exhaust leak around turbo outlet

[Freightrain]

Started noticing exhaust smell in the truck.  Opened the hood and goosed the throttle and smoke bellows out of 2 places on outlet side of turbo.  It's the casting between turbo and downpipe.  I've had that off a few years ago and I know it is not snug anymore, but it never leaked/smelled this bad.  Any thoughts on fixing it?  Doubt there are replacement parts for an old 237.  

I thought maybe some brass shim stock cut in rings to clamp between the ends to snug it up?

The downpipe fits on pins to locate and had thoughts of maching that mounting surface to move the downpipe closer to the turbo to tighten up the gaps in that short ring in-between.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Freightrain

[davehummell]

Larry how about getting some of that exhaust pipe sealant. Check with caterpillar I may be wrong but if I can remember they had some stuff it might be in the one safe source book? How about furnace cement? Thats the best I can think of. Good luck

[Freightrain]

Had thoughts of that but didn't think it would be a good long term fix.  Thus I wondered if that was a repair part or do some machining to tighten it up.

[theakerstwo]

If i remember right that outlet will have a seal ring on it like a piston ring.

[Joey Mack]

I just recently saw some E-9 exh. manifolds, that were sleeved, so that the sealing rings glenn mentions can seal better..  I did use exh manifold 2 part paste from NAPA on one of the E-9's,  it was just ok, and I had to work fast, which wasnt easy since there are several manifold pieces that have to be lined up right before tightening.  You may have good luck with the paste on the E-6, I think there is a dowel that needs to be lined up..  heck try it..... jojo

[mechohaulic]

13 minutes ago, theakerstwo said:

If i remember right that outlet will have a seal ring on it like a piston ring.

right on with the "piston ring" sealing factor. three pieces went together and sealed with the steel rings. 

[Hans Remmers]

Komatsu, Cat and International have all used that same setup on turbo outlet and I've always had good luck resealing both when replacing the rings and when I've used exhaust cement on reassembly.  They are a better setup than the rings on the junk X15 Cummins today for the EGR cooler inlet.

[Freightrain]

I'll get it pulled apart and check it.  

Thanks.

[Freightrain]

Ok, its apart and yea, 2 rings that appear to be well worn.  Wonder if anything like this is still available from Mack?  Don't want to screw them up trying to remove them if I can't replace them.  They are very snug right now, likely take heat to get them loose.

Might stop and see my buddy Jeff at R&R Mack and see if he can help me out.

[JoeH]

We use aluminum foil to seal inside the "v" clamp on our old ENDT676 motors. I don't recognize what you've got going on there, maybe you could wrap it in a few layers of foil before putting it back together.

[Freightrain]

It is the adapter between the turbo and downpipe(see my first post).  It leaks pretty bad due to seal rings are worn and stuck.  I'm looking for options to fix properly before getting the glue out.

[Joey Mack]

i have never tried, but is it possible to remove the rings, clean the grooves, gently heat the rings and stretch them out , and when they are larger pour cold water on them to set them to size, then re-use them?  

[Freightrain]

My guess is like piston rings, there is not way to distort them without breaking.  Likely are cast iron.

[mechohaulic]

cut top off gallon jug/ or empty paint can. 3/4 full of best penetrating  oil  you can find; ( not much around any more). let things soak. that flange WILL crack easy if hammered too much , HOW DO  I  KNOW !!!  yep been there done that...  

[Joey Mack]

I dont believe they are the same metal as piston rings.. the E-9's I worked in recently had the rings and they were steel not piston ring metal..  however, im in no position to tell you what to do..  just thinking outside the box..  jojo

[mechohaulic]

in todays world . possibly a speed shop : give up on auto parts . some one dealing with engine building might be able to match the rings. they are basically the solid rings of a car piston.  be brave and daring ;LOL , contact a Mack dealer for availability  of proper rings long shot they are still out there , slightly bigger if the two flanges are worn  like most 

[mechohaulic]

material may not be exact but the piston ring will take the heat, and expand for sealing the pipes. shaped different also these rings will be square cut. piston rings  have a inner taper. 

[Freightrain]

I'm just thinking that they are sprung like a piston ring...maybe not exact, but similar.  

No worry, I'm not going to whack it with a hammer!  I know how fragile it can be.

I have a good serial number to track parts, as I used it to get a band clamp for it back when I put motor in the truck.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Freightrain

[davehummell]

Larry find your self some ductal iron pipe and throw it in the lathe at work and do a little math maybe look in your machinist hand book and turn out the rings or get a copy of hit or miss antique engine magazine and look up guys that make old fashion square rings. I bought rings out of  Perfect Seal they had the rings I needed on my door step in a couple of days. I collect hit and miss engines and they take square rings on a cast iron piston most have a Dutch lap were the ends over lap and there were ads for rings up to 12" bore the last time I looked in that publication. Or maybe Hemmings?

[mrsmackpaul]

42 minutes ago, davehummell said:

Larry find your self some ductal iron pipe and throw it in the lathe at work and do a little math maybe look in your machinist hand book and turn out the rings or get a copy of hit or miss antique engine magazine and look up guys that make old fashion square rings. I bought rings out of  Perfect Seal they had the rings I needed on my door step in a couple of days. I collect hit and miss engines and they take square rings on a cast iron piston most have a Dutch lap were the ends over lap and there were ads for rings up to 12" bore the last time I looked in that publication. Or maybe Hemmings?

I reckon theres some good thoughts here

 

There places that custom make rings for old motors of any description so this shouldn't be to big a drama to have a go at 

 

Paul

[Freightrain]

Thanks Dave.  I realize I can go that route but it is too late to tear apart and let sit until I figure it out.  I need the truck, so I have to be able ro know what I need before I destroy those seals getting them out.  They don't overlap, they butt together.

[Vladislav]

I remember seeing a youtube movie of how a man was making piston rings. Those were of a simple square shape, almost as on your tubes. The way was really simple. The guy had a piece of cast iron pipe or so (since the most piston rings are made of cast iron), put the pipe in a lathe and cut a ring of the size he needed exactly (as compressed to the place). Than made a cut, put something (steel rod?) between the ends expanding the ring after which heated it up with a small torch. Getting red hot the ring failed off the rod loosing its springness but got it back right after a minute.

I was going to try doing the same but the plan as usually went on a back burner. Sure may be just a movie but seemed real and also not difficult to make a try repeating.

[mechohaulic]

3 hours ago, Freightrain said:

Thanks Dave.  I realize I can go that route but it is too late to tear apart and let sit until I figure it out.  I need the truck, so I have to be able ro know what I need before I destroy those seals getting them out.  They don't overlap, they butt together.

i would be more concerned  with cracking the flange  trying to remove the rings. destroying the rings is   a close sure shot. reason earlier post mentioned soaking the flange . have been able to soak; remove; clean the rings and reinstall. there isn't any movement on the flange unlike a piston ring. exhaust rings freeze in place. saving the ozone has gotten rid of a lot of good products (chemicals) for things like penetrating oils.

[Mark T]

Maybe you could upgrade to a newer turbo with a regular V band ?

[terry]

2 hours ago, Mark T said:

Maybe you could upgrade to a newer turbo with a regular V band ?

That means changing whole exhaust manifold and exhaust layout.   terry