No brake lights or turn signals in B61

[doubleclutchinweasel]

It's for a different setup (R model), but maybe this will give you something to think about at least.  The "Stop Light Switch" is in the "trailer service" line, downstream of the double check valve.  This way, the brake lights come on if either the trolley valve or the treadle valve are operated.  The schematic shows this a long way from the treadle, but, in reality, it was right there at it.

[Freightrain]

6 hours ago, skydawg said:

So I can put the switch in one of the trailer air line fittings that are presently plugged?

Just move it to the other side of the TP valve that it is in now.  It should say "Service".  

[skydawg]

We have brake lights! Putting the switch in the left trailer line did the trick.Many thanks to all who responded.

[skydawg]

Not fixed after all.With the tractor Protection switched to Emergency,there`s no air pressure to either trailer fitting.TP switched to normal,brake lights come on w/air brake switch in either trailer line when air pressure builds in the tank.Does this indicate a bad brake valve under the pedal?

[Brocky]

Probably not?? Do your brake lights come on with the foot pedal (no hand valve) in the Normal position??? If so, and you can see the brakes apply, your foot pedal should be OK.. There should be TWO stop light pressure switches.. The primary should(????) be on the cowl / firewall.. not too far from the underside of the foot pedal. In the service line which applies air to the tractor brakes when you step on the pedal. The switch you have in the trailer service line is there so you have brake lights when you use the hand valve ONLY..  In the emergency position there is no air to the trailer..

Edited October 15, 2022 by Brocky

[skydawg]

With the tractor protection in Normal position,the brake lights are always on as long as there`s air built up,w/no brake pedal being used.There`s air pressure always present in either trailer air line fitting when the TP switch is in the NORMAL position,with no brake pedal involved.

[Freightrain]

The brake light switch needs to be moved before the TP valve, not after.  That is the problem. 

Was it in that location when you bought the truck?  It just needs move upstream towards the brake pedal, in a location that is not affected by anything else.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

19 hours ago, Freightrain said:

The brake light switch needs to be moved before the TP valve, not after.  That is the problem. 

Was it in that location when you bought the truck?  It just needs move upstream towards the brake pedal, in a location that is not affected by anything else.

That's the ticket right there.  Put the switch into the "trailer-service"  line coming out of the double check valve, headed toward the tractor protection valve.  This line should have pressure on it any time the foot valve or trolley valve is opened, regardless of the TP valve position.  On my R, the double check valve was right at the foot valve.  Not sure where it is on a B.

If you have air pressure in the trailer "trailer-service" line (with TP valve to "normal" and no foot valve or trolley valve open), there is a problem somewhere else.  With the TP valve to "normal", there should be air in the "trailer-emergency" line only (it charges the air system on the trailer).  Only when you open the foot valve or trolley valve should you get air to the "trailer-service" line.  Possibly leaking through trolley valve?  Or a bad TP valve?

Setting the TP valve to "emergency" kills all the air going to the trailer.  On my R, there was a second switch that caused the brake lights to come on when the parking brakes were applied.  It was normally closed, so it opened and shut off the lights when you applied air to overcome the spring brakes.  When you dumped the air to allow the spring brakes to engage, the switch closed and turned on the lights.  So, the brake lights were on any time the key was on and the parking brakes were set.

Incidentally, if you have no intention of ever hooking up a trailer, you could conceivable put the switch into a line that feeds the brakes on the tractor.  But, I think it would be just as easy to tee it into the "trailer-service" line between the double check valve and the tractor protection valve.

Anyway, get the switch moved to a better spot first and see if everything works better.

[mechohaulic]

there's a saying "many hands make light work" ::: in the mechanical world " many hands sure screw up a lot of simple projects.  L9000 ford I'm working on now show how many hands did their thing with new wires and way tooo many butt connectors. no brake lights to trailer  when stepping on pedal   = great brake lights when parked  and key on. 

[Freightrain]

My brake light switch is right under back of cab on left frame rail, I'm guessing in the service line going to the rear brakes?  Im also guessing it tees off to the TP valve.

[skydawg]

I finally found the original switch,under the cab,inside the frame rail on top of a double check valve,according to a B schematic.I hope it`s just the wiring that`s bad because it looks like it would have to be replaced w/ the same model.It doesn`t thread into the check valve,it`s attached by 2 screws.Maybe it can be fixed,if an exact replacement isn`t available.Where would I find the trolley valve? Thanks everyone for responding,I obviously have a lot to learn.

Edited October 17, 2022 by skydawg
added to post

[Freightrain]

Trolley valve is the hand brake on the column.  It manually operates only the trailer brakes.

[Brocky]

1 hour ago, Freightrain said:

Trolley valve is the hand brake on the column.  It manually operates only the trailer brakes.

Technically speaking it would be named: The hand operated manual trailer brake application valve, but it has many "nicknames" starting with hand, trolley, spike, Johnson bar, and other similar names.

 

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Did you ever get this sorted out?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:02 PM, Brocky said:

Technically speaking it would be named: The hand operated manual trailer brake application valve, but it has many "nicknames" starting with hand, trolley, spike, Johnson bar, and other similar names.

 

By the way, we also called the forward/reverse lever in a direct-drive Caterpillar tractor the "Johnson Bar".  I think the steam locomotive engineers used that term for other things, too.

 

EDIT:  A quick search shows that steam locomotives' "reversing bar" was sometimes called the Johnson Bar.  I guess that's where the Cat guys got it.

Edited October 28, 2022 by doubleclutchinweasel

[Freightrain]

Johnson.......oh that reminds me of this commercial.  Lol......

 

[doubleclutchinweasel]

I couldn't get it to load right now.  Is that Raymond J. Johnson, Junior?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Yep.   It loaded.  That's what I thought...or was afraid of!  LMAO!

[Freightrain]

Any time the name Johnson comes up....that stupid commercial rings in my head......LOL.

[skydawg]

Yes,finally have brake lights.After new wiring,still no joy.Located,the original switch atop the double check valve,opened it and cleaned the contacts,brake lights are back in business.Thanks to all responders.

[Freightrain]

Thanks for the update.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 11/5/2022 at 6:37 PM, skydawg said:

Yes,finally have brake lights.After new wiring,still no joy.Located,the original switch atop the double check valve,opened it and cleaned the contacts,brake lights are back in business.Thanks to all responders.

Glad to hear you found the switch and got it sorted out.  Plus, you were able to keep it original.  Thanks for posting the follow-up.  Follow-ups are very helpful for the next guy with a similar issue.