ltamikey Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 Hello, I am trying to delete SCR/DPF/DEF/ EGR on a MP10. Once everything has been removed and new tune put in, I am getting a popping noise with puffs of white smoke every time it hits 1600 rpm. If you lug the truck around 1000-1200 rpm get a small amount of black smoke and runs great, then becomes sluggish from 12-1600 while losing boost down to 15 psi, then at 1600 starts its "popping, sputtering" noises. I have pulled the head and replace jake controller but everything else looks great. at complete loss here. starting to thing its a VGT issue and would like to replace with wastegate turbo but that is not seeming possible. Anyone have any ideas? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 It's a programming issue. If you get rid of vgt your engine brake won't work very well. What year is your truck? 2015 and newer are obd2 and they are more complicated to delete. Mines a 2015 and all is deleted but egr. I guess that's a trickier tune. The only trouble I have is egr coolers keep cracking. We figure it is from the weak mounting setup. The next leaky cooler is getting welded shut and ecm will be sent in for a tune. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 19, 2022 Author Share Posted September 19, 2022 The truck in question is a 2013 Mack TD mp10. We did notice today while running a VGT function test that the EGR valve (which is removed and blocked) is at a constant 39%. We were having plugged DPF/SCR problems due to high idle times in our off road oilfield setting. So we decided to delete and have headaches since. It seems that we are not getting enough air to burn the fuel as we get a heavy raw fuel smell from the exhaust. No active codes at all. VGT opens to around 65% with heavy throttle/ parked. This seems to be the same as other trucks that we have not deleted. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 19, 2022 Author Share Posted September 19, 2022 here is a clip of the noise im speaking of. 20220914_135613_Trim.mp4 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 19, 2022 Share Posted September 19, 2022 is the VEBC acting up? I see smoke along with the fluttering, and if was an ASET, I would suspect a bad engine brake oring.. I dont know, just a thought,, the video is good just too short.. Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 Thanks Joey, This was our thoughts at first as well. We have put 2 new controllers on and pulled the head just to cross that off the list, to no avail. Sorry for the short video, Had to trim to upload. I have a new turbo on the way. The thinking is, since the delete was performed because of the extremely plugged DPF SCR system, that the VGT may also have some plugged up veins not allowing enough air through. It should be here today and We will try it out. We also noticed yesterday that even though the egr is completely removed and blocked off, the computer show it open to 39%. Curious if the open EGR valve condition would change the VGT output... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 the viens in the turbo dump exhaust to reduce boost.. air intake is not metered. the exhaust flow controls the boost pressure, by spinning the turbo faster using exhaust pressure to create intake air pressure.. a bad egr can cause the puffing you have. I have seen this same issue many times with Series 60 14 ltr Detroit's.. jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 The EGR hase been removed, blocked plates on both ends and supposedly tuned out of the system. We found a guy with an MP8 deleted the same way and it was running good so we got his tuner's info and used him, assuming the tune would be good. PTT still shows the EGR is 39% open even though its laying on the floor. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 ok, I understand now.. But I have no experience with deletes.. I have reversed a couple of them, but never deleted one.. I will just set back and see what others post on this issue. If I have an idea or info, I will come back in.. Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 Thanks for the posts Jojo, We appreciate any help we can get! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: ok, I understand now.. But I have no experience with deletes.. I have reversed a couple of them, but never deleted one.. I will just set back and see what others post on this issue. If I have an idea or info, I will come back in.. Jojo Me too ! 🤣 That said the vgt could be sticking not uncommon even when not deleted! remove the control motor and check if the control rack is moving smoothly! DON'T break the bolts! 😅 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 That is the direction we are leaning as well. I have a new turbo on the way and will just swap out for the new one. I will post progress. Thanks for the post (and from the other threads as well). 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-509929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Got the new turbo and VGT controller installed. Still having the same issues. Raw fuel, white smoke, and wont rev past 1600 rpm before it acts like cylinders are full of fuel and starts to pop and shake... Is it possible to turn the injectors fuel output down? I think we may try to see how much fuel is being pushed into the injectors, not sure how much fuel there should be going through to tell if its too much. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 12 minutes ago, ltamikey said: Got the new turbo and VGT controller installed. Still having the same issues. Raw fuel, white smoke, and wont rev past 1600 rpm before it acts like cylinders are full of fuel and starts to pop and shake... Is it possible to turn the injectors fuel output down? I think we may try to see how much fuel is being pushed into the injectors, not sure how much fuel there should be going through to tell if its too much. 7th injector still hooked up? engine brake valve sticking? half stuck? just shit to think on! If the engine brake is full stuck the engine will start then die a soon as oil pressure is established ! If its part on will run rough and still be fueling! smoke! we had these valves faulty right out of the box ! Just sayin! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 the head was off, is the cam timed correctly? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 I'm still saying it's a programming issue. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Joey Mack said: the head was off, is the cam timed correctly? Joe you would think it would be throwing a code if the cam was off a tooth at least that’s what our guys experienced! I think he pulled the valve cover replaced the the brake valve! Milkman is likely on to it the delete program is likely causing an issue! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 yes sir.. Just tossing out some thoughts.. I know these MP's are sensitive to any repairs, and then you have t do a 'learn data reset' and update the software in the ECU.... Yes, codes should be present.. It hurts to see all the money being spent and the problem still exists. I wonder if he was able to calibrate the VGT actuator for the new turbo, even though it came with one, didnt we have to remove it and set it with that little plastic gauge,? jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 OK... head, cam, valvetrain all been out and looks great. Today, we learned that when we took it to the dealer in april 2021, dpf was plugged and injectors were needed. DPF parts were 9+months out so we did the delete. Dealer put in new injectors, but for the next emission level. Injectors were for a US14 emission and ours is US10. Headed in for the correct injectors, hopefully this is the cure. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltamikey Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 FJH- there is no DPF/SCR/EGR DEF systems left on this truck. Running its 4th jake controller since this started. Hopefully, the correct injectors cure the issue. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Best of luck to you....Let us know how it goes.. Many guys on here have deleted trucks, and you may be able to help someone with your expereince's... jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmac3 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 To me that sounds like you have the engine brake plungers sticking and not retracting back into their respective bores. V 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 (edited) Yes 'V' my first thought was a sticking engine brake or a bad VEBC.. I was not sure about the turbo affecting it while idling. What is your thoughts on the turbo affecting it at idle, since the turbo is not working at that time.. please correct me if I'm wrong.. jojo Edited September 22, 2022 by Joey Mack poor sperring.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vmac3 Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 If the turbo is closed then too much exhaust back pressure is building up and you don't have enough exhaust scavenging. That will cause the engine not to run smoothly. It will always be under load. I would remove the actuator and move the lever while the engine is running. If it clears up when the turbo is open then the issue can be with the tune or the turbo. I don't know, just a guy thinking out loud. V 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 Your thought's are well thought out.. jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70446-turbo-swap-vgt-delete-mp10/#findComment-510115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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