Twin turbo e6/e7

[Mack superdog]

I have an 89 superliner tri axle dump I’m looking to put to work but wanna have fun with the e6 before I put an e7 in it was gonna put 30% injectors in it crank the pump up and advance the timing only thing I’m worried about is when I put a big single turbo on it’s gonna have some really bad lag if say I shift on a grade it might not be able to come out of it.    has anyone ever put 2 turbos on one small one for low end and a bigger one for the top end pictures of how its all plumed up would be nice 

[terry]

Be interesting to see what Joey Mack thinks about this!   I don't think the lower end will take it.   terry

[fjh]

7 hours ago, Mack superdog said:

I have an 89 superliner tri axle dump I’m looking to put to work but wanna have fun with the e6 before I put an e7 in it was gonna put 30% injectors in it crank the pump up and advance the timing only thing I’m worried about is when I put a big single turbo on it’s gonna have some really bad lag if say I shift on a grade it might not be able to come out of it.    has anyone ever put 2 turbos on one small one for low end and a bigger one for the top end pictures of how its all plumed up would be nice 

E6 won’t handle! E7 maybe for a while! Wouldn’t want to drag much over 500 for to long ! Just my opinion!

[Joey Mack]

Amen!!! 'F'...

[Mack superdog]

8 hours ago, Mack superdog said:

I have an 89 superliner tri axle dump I’m looking to put to work but wanna have fun with the e6 before I put an e7 in it was gonna put 30% injectors in it crank the pump up and advance the timing only thing I’m worried about is when I put a big single turbo on it’s gonna have some really bad lag if say I shift on a grade it might not be able to come out of it.    has anyone ever put 2 turbos on one small one for low end and a bigger one for the top end pictures of how its all plumed up would be nice 

I know it won’t handle it for long with the 2 bolt mains my dad has his e6 in his superliner turned up back in the day first broke the block up the middle then put new reman engine in the snapped crank in half then next motor turned it back a little and it was good till he sold it I just wanna have fun with it until it flys apart then I can put my e7 in it I’ve heard e7 should handle 600hp reliably but I’m looking for just around 550hp with that 

[Joey Mack]

so you want to kill an engine that many guy's here want to have, so they can put their classic back together??   Yeah,, I am one that will not follow this post...   that suck's...   Jojo

[Onyx610]

55 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

so you want to kill an engine that many guy's here want to have, so they can put their classic back together??   Yeah,, I am one that will not follow this post...   that suck's...   Jojo

Then these guys should offer up some money for this engine so he can fund his e7 build. 

[Onyx610]

Most people don’t want these engines believe it or not just like the Detroit’s. They’re worth just as much in scrap as they are running. And if you can make a few grand more destroying it on YouTube then why not. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Onyx610

[Joey Mack]

I guess I Just think about Pride..  I spent a lot of blood and sweat, to keep many trucks running, because the owners needed to get back to work..   I'm sorry that I don't find an attraction to destroying a classic, that can still earn a living for a guy that isn't wealthy...  It's just my crappy opinion...   jojo

[Onyx610]

I’m all for an experiment on this. Id suggest your bigger injectors, timing advance, and a slightly bigger turbo to feed your stock turbo. Then see what power it makes and for how long.  

[Full Floater]

Ya im not into the additional stresses on the engine, BUT......I would be interested to see if a compound turbo setup could be tuned to drastically reduce that thick Mack exhaust smoke on upshifting/acceleration 

[mrsmackpaul]

5 hours ago, Mack superdog said:

I know it won’t handle it for long with the 2 bolt mains my dad has his e6 in his superliner turned up back in the day first broke the block up the middle then put new reman engine in the snapped crank in half then next motor turned it back a little and it was good till he sold it I just wanna have fun with it until it flys apart then I can put my e7 in it I’ve heard e7 should handle 600hp reliably but I’m looking for just around 550hp with that 

Yep, I'm kinda speechless

 

Paul 

[67RModel]

I suspect if adding more fuel and twin turboing an E6 was any bit advantageous then Mack engineers would have made such an engine 40 years ago. I get you want to experiment but it seems futile as you already know how its going to end. An 89 would be a 4V E6, which is a very desirable engine in my opinion and not worth destroying. To each their own I guess. As for building an E7 with 550 horsepower you are pretty much negating the two hallmarks of the Mack E7: reliability and fuel efficiency. An E7 with  over 450 horse is nuts IMO. Depending on how often you are are using 550 hp you will have trouble keeping it cool and quite frankly in one piece.....

[Dirtymilkman]

I have a 2001 etec that easily puts out 500hp and it has 1,000,000+ miles with only injectors and valves set every 250,000 miles.  Otherwise only thing done was 2 eup's, a starter and waterpump. I also am the only one to drive it. No trouble cooling it in a CL, but make sure the cac is a good one. Also, you want a e7 with the two piece pistons. 

[The Rubber Duck 006]

I agree with Joey. There are guys looking for those Motors and parts for their trucks. So instead of seeing how far you can push it and possibly blow it apart Yank it out and put up on a post in parts for-sale. What is with These guys that have nothing better to do than destroy stuff. 🤔 I just don't git it. I must've been raised and taught different. I myself am beyond words with this one.

[Mack superdog]

See we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Mack would have just made a big hp 6 cylinder like cat , Detroit, and Cummins not only that parts are getting harder to get and outrageous in price that goes to show how much they care about guys like us their doing that so we’re forced to buy newer stuff that need to go to them to get fixed I’ve thought about an electronic c15 swap to.                     an old truck with a motor that parts are plentiful for would be ideal in my eyes 

[Vmac3]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:30 AM, Mack superdog said:

I have an 89 superliner tri axle dump I’m looking to put to work but wanna have fun with the e6 before I put an e7 in it was gonna put 30% injectors in it crank the pump up and advance the timing only thing I’m worried about is when I put a big single turbo on it’s gonna have some really bad lag if say I shift on a grade it might not be able to come out of it.    has anyone ever put 2 turbos on one small one for low end and a bigger one for the top end pictures of how its all plumed up would be nice 

I think its a waste of time and money. Better to donate your time and money to someone who really needs it. We already know what the outcome is going to be. 

V

[The Rubber Duck 006]

57 minutes ago, Mack superdog said:

See we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Mack would have just made a big hp 6 cylinder like cat , Detroit, and Cummins not only that parts are getting harder to get and outrageous in price that goes to show how much they care about guys like us their doing that so we’re forced to buy newer stuff that need to go to them to get fixed I’ve thought about an electronic c15 swap to.                     an old truck with a motor that parts are plentiful for would be ideal in my eyes 

Like I told someone one Youtube not to long ago it ain't all about power. It's about torque and efficiency. You can have 1100 hp which I know of a lady that has it in a C15 Clatter-pillar but if you don't have the right horse/torque ratio with the Right tranny combo and gears in the rears all you have is a pavement princess with a lot of HP under the hood. Give me an old 60 series Detroit with a 15 speed deep reduction and I can walk with the big horse power boys pulling loads all day long. 

[brettj3876]

On 9/26/2022 at 9:06 AM, Dirtymilkman said:

I have a 2001 etec that easily puts out 500hp and it has 1,000,000+ miles with only injectors and valves set every 250,000 miles.  Otherwise only thing done was 2 eup's, a starter and waterpump. I also am the only one to drive it. No trouble cooling it in a CL, but make sure the cac is a good one. Also, you want a e7 with the two piece pistons. 

Yeah some of these people make me laugh saying a E7 can't live above 500hp Lol. On a fully mechanical E7 I've got Stg 2 Rochester injectors, pump opened up all the way, S475 turbo and the timing set at 21 degrees. No problem keeping it cool and it's lived this way for over 200k since the inframe. No blowby and doesn't use oil. I don't lug it below 1350. Lugging a turned up engine is what will kill it early. It has the 15.3:1 pistons not the 16.9:1 it came with. If you want big power you need the 15.3 pistons. That what the 650 marine engines came with 

 

 

My uncle has a 500 60 series Detroit and it walks away from him like it's not even there. We also have a 99 460 with the blixxton box and it walks away from that too. 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by brettj3876

[Mack superdog]

Brett thank you I’ve heard e7 should be good for 600hp we had a vision that was a factory 480 therefore they didn’t have that at the limit for hp it could handle there’s room for more 

[brettj3876]

6 hours ago, Mack superdog said:

Brett thank you I’ve heard e7 should be good for 600hp we had a vision that was a factory 480 therefore they didn’t have that at the limit for hp it could handle there’s room for more 

I would find a mechanical E7 to put in the super liner. Antrim diesel in green castle pa has dyno'd quite a few E7s over the 500 mark. If you want any advice call and ask for Richard. He gave us some advice for building an injection pump. 

[BOBWhite]

Yippee I was just thinking of something like this! This is how I would do it; first off increasing the flow of the pump does nothing but waste fuel for a well tuned motor. (punch a hole in your fuel tank if you want to do that, it would be cheeper) Increasing injection pressure is the key to increasing power and efficiency. If you're going to experiment with anything experiment with cracking pressure, Injection timing, and injector balancing. Thats the key for a good running diesel. 

For the turbo setup twins add two things: complexity and heat (to the intake air) Yes twins can add power but if done improperly you might be disappointed with terrible efficiency and meh power. Caterpillar tried twins in the 2000's and It just didn't work well, too much heat. Thats why most convert those back to singles.  Single is really the way to go for an inline motor but to make more power you need to manage that air better. A single VGT turbo is an option but that comes with a plague of wiring and sensors. Plus you'll have to find a computer to control it. The solution I thought up would be an asymmetric turbocharger or a variable twin scroll turbocharger. It has the ability to vary the boost pressure as well as being very simple in operation and being very reliable. The only thing is how to control it? I think It can be done mechanically but it will take some more thinking. Both Detroit and Cat have been using them for the last 10 years or so and they seem pretty available, sizing might be a challenge though. 

Im not at all one for blowing up or harming motors but I can't keep myself from tinkering. Mack may have spent 40 years working on refining the e6 and e7 but with access to the knowledge and tech we have now its so tempting to tinker with it. I don't think it's a waste of time but I would say negligent tinkering and "I know more than the engineers" attitude causes trouble and waste. To me it's so fun to think about this stuff even though everyone says it's a waste of time. 

[Mack superdog]

2 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

I would find a mechanical E7 to put in the super liner. Antrim diesel in green castle pa has dyno'd quite a few E7s over the 500 mark. If you want any advice call and ask for Richard. He gave us some advice for building an injection pump. 

That’s the plan after the e6 dies or maybe I’ll put an e9 I have laying around in 

[Mack superdog]

3 minutes ago, BOBWhite said:

Yippee I was just thinking of something like this! This is how I would do it; first off increasing the flow of the pump does nothing but waste fuel for a well tuned motor. (punch a hole in your fuel tank if you want to do that, it would be cheeper) Increasing injection pressure is the key to increasing power and efficiency. If you're going to experiment with anything experiment with cracking pressure, Injection timing, and injector balancing. Thats the key for a good running diesel. 

For the turbo setup twins add two things: complexity and heat (to the intake air) Yes twins can add power but if done improperly you might be disappointed with terrible efficiency and meh power. Caterpillar tried twins in the 2000's and It just didn't work well, too much heat. Thats why most convert those back to singles.  Single is really the way to go for an inline motor but to make more power you need to manage that air better. A single VGT turbo is an option but that comes with a plague of wiring and sensors. Plus you'll have to find a computer to control it. The solution I thought up would be an asymmetric turbocharger or a variable twin scroll turbocharger. It has the ability to vary the boost pressure as well as being very simple in operation and being very reliable. The only thing is how to control it? I think It can be done mechanically but it will take some more thinking. Both Detroit and Cat have been using them for the last 10 years or so and they seem pretty available, sizing might be a challenge though. 

Im not at all one for blowing up or harming motors but I can't keep myself from tinkering. Mack may have spent 40 years working on refining the e6 and e7 but with access to the knowledge and tech we have now its so tempting to tinker with it. I don't think it's a waste of time but I would say negligent tinkering and "I know more than the engineers" attitude causes trouble and waste. To me it's so fun to think about this stuff even though everyone says it's a waste of time. 

I like the way you thing I’m not trying to just blow up a motor for fun I like to tinker as well yes Mack made them for reliability but there’s not too much performance support for Mack like there is cat Detroit and Cummins 

[67RModel]

On 9/26/2022 at 11:34 AM, Mack superdog said:

See we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Mack would have just made a big hp 6 cylinder like cat , Detroit, and Cummins

They did. They just never sold it to the public. The Mack Big Six. 885 cubic inch inline 6 and utilized E9 cylinder heads. There is one sitting on an engine stand at the Mack Museum.