doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Really does sound like something amiss inside the clutch assembly. Disc reversed. Intermediate plate issue. The cable seems to be moving the release bearing. Release bearing not properly engaged? 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Full Floater said: Thanks for clarifying what term is for what when it comes to adjusting. I adjusted the 5/8 adjusting bolt (w/pedal depressed with a 2x4) to the point of having more then 3'' free travel in the pedal to almost no free travel. Equating to +/- 1/2'' gap between the TO bearing and the clutch brake. I use a piece of 1/2'' round stock bent in such a way to fit around the release fork to make that measurement. I also adjusted the external linkage rod. Neither of which made a noticeable difference. I have messed with both adjustments lots over the past couple days, but messed with them again during this test with the wheels off the ground so I can run the driveline. It's obvious you have "Your sh-t together" mechanically ; has to be a simple situation. back to square one would put me to the flywheel dogs . new or reuse old dogs? as earlier stated , I use the center intermediate plate; should have been new with clutch assy making sure plate slides freely. hoping as you are to resolve this technical difficulty WITHOUT PULLING TRANS 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533161 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, mechohaulic said: It's obvious you have "Your sh-t together" mechanically ; has to be a simple situation. back to square one would put me to the flywheel dogs . new or reuse old dogs? as earlier stated , I use the center intermediate plate; should have been new with clutch assy making sure plate slides freely. hoping as you are to resolve this technical difficulty WITHOUT PULLING TRANS Sorry I never answered that dog question a few posts back. The dogs are the same dogs that were in the flywheel. The clutch had been replaced at some point recently (thats probably when the rubber mounts were done as well) due to a wore out clutch. There was not much wear on the clutch and the dogs were likely done then also, seeing how there was no noticeable wear on them. Just so things are clear, the reason the clutch was replaced again is due to me having the engine out of the truck and obviously it made sense to throw a new clutch at it while im in there. As for the dogs, they appeared square/aligned when I slid on the intermediate place but I did have to kinda push/tap that plate on. It wasn't totally smooth but also not an apparent problem. There is a side access port on the flywheel housing to access 1 dog nut at a time. I wonder if it would be worth while to loosen each, one at a time; and retorque. In case one is hung up or something Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 restudy pictures ;; why does the forks seem to be covered in grease : not helping brake, also you stated disc looks worn ???? Have seen brake disc totally worn/ greased still might be a little grinding in and out of gear = but can disengage. back to flywheel dogs- sorry to ruin your day. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Side note, thank you everyone for your dedicated and prompt support. Means a lot. I hope I can return the favor on another topic one day 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: restudy pictures ;; why does the forks seem to be covered in grease : not helping brake, also you stated disc looks worn ???? Have seen brake disc totally worn/ greased still might be a little grinding in and out of gear = but can disengage. back to flywheel dogs- sorry to ruin your day. Grease is due to not pressure washing everything as good as I should have during install due to it being 10 below during that time. There was a leaky rear main on the previous engine. There is no grease on the new clutch brake however. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: restudy pictures ;; why does the forks seem to be covered in grease : not helping brake, also you stated disc looks worn ???? Have seen brake disc totally worn/ greased still might be a little grinding in and out of gear = but can disengage. back to flywheel dogs- sorry to ruin your day. So the dogs allow the intermediate plate to move back and forth, correct? I'm not familiar with them in any other application that I've worked with in the past. This is my first Mack trans/clutch operation Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533166 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 OR!!! if I loosened the dog nuts thru the access port one at a time, then with the engine off I depress the clutch pedal several times to hopefully align anything that might be out of whack, then retorque them. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Full Floater said: Sorry I never answered that dog question a few posts back. The dogs are the same dogs that were in the flywheel. The clutch had been replaced at some point recently (thats probably when the rubber mounts were done as well) due to a wore out clutch. There was not much wear on the clutch and the dogs were likely done then also, seeing how there was no noticeable wear on them. Just so things are clear, the reason the clutch was replaced again is due to me having the engine out of the truck and obviously it made sense to throw a new clutch at it while im in there. As for the dogs, they appeared square/aligned when I slid on the intermediate place but I did have to kinda push/tap that plate on. It wasn't totally smooth but also not an apparent problem. There is a side access port on the flywheel housing to access 1 dog nut at a time. I wonder if it would be worth while to loosen each, one at a time; and retorque. In case one is hung up or something 10=4 on the idea to replace clutch; that's called common sense. "how much is the doggy in the window" this case toooo much .LOL "I did kinda tap plate " 😱. DO NOT loosen the dogs from outside. if that works and doesn't create a bigger problem then my suggestion is to run right out and buy a lottery ticket. you would be one lucky individual. you don't have any way of holding the dogs . also if the dogs were removed during flywheel machining difficult to decide where to put them back one side worn more then other then put in opposite will put you where you are now. it's removal time Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: 10=4 on the idea to replace clutch; that's called common sense. "how much is the doggy in the window" this case toooo much .LOL "I did kinda tap plate " 😱. DO NOT loosen the dogs from outside. if that works and doesn't create a bigger problem then my suggestion is to run right out and buy a lottery ticket. you would be one lucky individual. you don't have any way of holding the dogs . also if the dogs were removed during flywheel machining difficult to decide where to put them back one side worn more then other then put in opposite will put you where you are now. it's removal time HAHAH. Ok note taken. But when you say no way of holding the dogs, is that in reference to them falling out if I accidently remove the nut, OR do you mean hold them to keep them aligned? I was thinking just loosening the nut about 1 turn or something to take tension off of the dogs and hopefully let them settle where they need to settle, in case one is kittywampus Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Full Floater said: So the dogs allow the intermediate plate to move back and forth, correct? I'm not familiar with them in any other application that I've worked with in the past. This is my first Mack trans/clutch operation purpose of the dogs is to hold the intermediate plate making it act as a flywheel face. if the plate didn't slide the first disc against the flywheel it self would never disengage. If the clutch pedal is pressed down (2x4) can you go under side with along screw driver and move the clutch disc. should be able to see them through one of the bellhousing holes. might have to turn flywheel (by hand/ bar etc0 to see disc Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Full Floater said: HAHAH. Ok note taken. But when you say no way of holding the dogs, is that in reference to them falling out if I accidently remove the nut, OR do you mean hold them to keep them aligned? I was thinking just loosening the nut about 1 turn or something to take tension off of the dogs and hopefully let them settle where they need to settle, in case one is kittywampus they won't fallout. if they move enough to straighten out when you loosen then they will move enough to go crooked again. they don't settle. no groove to set in just round hole through flywheel. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I couldn't make the 4 hr trip to Macungie PA truck show from CT so I can't take a road call trip to Slocan BC . sure would like to:: I can't stand when a mechanical issue "defeats "me. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Sounds like intermediate plate binding between the drive dogs. Front disc is probably trapped between the intermediate plate and the flywheel. Intermediate plate must float freely between the 2 discs. Normally they rattle a bit with the clutch pushed in But, I’ve been wrong at least twice today already. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Ok, it's making sense to me now. I bet thats what's happening since im getting SOME disengagement but not enough. Probably just the rear friction disk is releasing and not the front. So with the clutch pushed in, I then SHOULD be able to move/wiggle the rear friction disk if I can get to it, correct? It also makes sense that the dogs will just move back if I loosen then tighten them. I think I should at least try that before pulling the pin and dropping the trans....JUST IN CASE it works! If it does I will certainly buy a lotto ticket and will also share it with you fine fellas! If I attempt that.....should I do that with the pedal depressed? Edited June 17, 2023 by Full Floater 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Is this by any chance a reman clutch ? Do you have a good transmission jack ?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I guess I am going back to my question about the 'dogs'.. they keep the intermediate pressure plate in position. You said the flywheel was machined but not completely due to the 'dogs' is what I understood.. so they cut the fly wheel with the 'dogs' in place? or with them out? I wish WE could be there to see this mess you have.. jojo 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Mech... in the last picture you can see the edge of the 2 pc. clutch brake.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, Mark T said: Is this by any chance a reman clutch ? Do you have a good transmission jack ?? I actually believe this is a new clutch. That's what they sold it as anyways.. I don't have a good enough jack for these trans, I will have to use a chain fall off a 4x4 that's laid across the window sills. Im doing the work on a gravel surface to. Which is why im trying to exhaust all options first lol Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: I guess I am going back to my question about the 'dogs'.. they keep the intermediate pressure plate in position. You said the flywheel was machined but not completely due to the 'dogs' is what I understood.. so they cut the fly wheel with the 'dogs' in place? or with them out? I wish WE could be there to see this mess you have.. jojo I would imagine it was done with the dogs in place. I didn't ask. In hindsight I should have but at the time I didn't think anything of it. The flywheel wasn't in bad shape so they just cleaned it up a tad, I was happy with the quality of the surface. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 If you have a harbor frieght near you, they have a decent tranny jack for around $300.00 USD.. I have one, and it works good for the price.. just be sure to secure the brackets and put a ratchet strap over the tranny and sinch it to the table on the jack.. (if you get one)... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 You are obviously a smart guy and know quite a bit about this job.. It seems to me you are scratching your head... Been there.... I Know!! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Joey Mack said: You are obviously a smart guy and know quite a bit about this job.. It seems to me you are scratching your head... Been there.... I Know!! Lots of scratching my head going on here on this one!! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Now we know it is dissengaging, if only a bit I'm pretty sure the intermediate plate is binding as others have suggested As to how to fix this Im not exactly sure without dropping the transmission I would try to slide the transmission back enough to work on with out pulling it out Put some big bits of all thread in and to slide the transmission back on If your on gravel make up some rails for a big trolley jack to roll smoothly on I have made a cradle up for the Mack transmission to sit in the top of the big trolley jack that works well I have done these on gravel without rails or anything and it's a bit exciting at times trying to balance everything and slide it up in while laying underneath I make the rails up out of 2 inch angle iron maybe 1/4 thick or thicker This is even handy on a concrete floor because it helps guide things along Anyway good luck Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 The only other thing I can think of is a bad pilot bearing. But the intermediate plate would be my first guess. And that’s all it is…a guess! 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/5/#findComment-533196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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