mechohaulic Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 did you install a mack clutch or a spicer?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-527580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 Spicer. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-527581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 Eaton, rather Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-527627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 3 months later, getting back to it, the clutch is adjusted with 1/2'' +/- between the throw out bearing and the new clutch brake, pedal free travel about 2'' I cannot get the clutch to disengage even if I adjust +/- on the kwik adjust and/or linkage. I've tried adjusting it both ways and adjusting the linkage several times, to no avail. Everything is adjusted to spec again before I move on. The trans just grinds as I try to put it into gear and will not mesh. The clutch discs went in the correct way, line up tool used to align it and new pilot bearing. The clutch brake is new Could it be that the clutch plates are stuck to the re-surfaced flywheel from sitting a few months? Can I rap on the back of the clutch through the inspection hole to attempt to free it up? If so, should I do that with the pedal depressed? Edited June 16, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Can you put it in Low gear and start it, then drive it to see if it will break free? You did say the clutch discs are in correctly.. can you get under there and look at the clutch fork movement with some one pushing/pumping the clutch? (engine Off)... 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) I can put the truck in lo gear and start it but it's not currently in a position to move more then a few feet. And I have the service brake system all apart for new relay valves and such. It did actually jump into gear when I was trying it and had to pull the shut down to get it to stop as I had no clutch disengagement to take the load of the trans to get it out of gear. Didn't have room to throttle it and release, to brake the torque. I have had someone work the clutch as I watched, the throw out bearing pulls the clutch "rod" back and the bearing moves up against the clutch brake. Also used a board for adjusting purposes to hold the pedal down when nobody was around. One thing I cannot do, or I haven't yet, was to measure .010" gap at the clutch brake with the pedal at the floor as I can't get in there with the Mack style release fork in the way. Will have to custom bend a feeler gauge or something. But it's probably close enough that I should get at least marginal disengagement Yes the clutch plates went in right. Triple checked that when installing. The release fork is on the right side of the throw out bearing hahaha. I can see how THAT problem could potentially occur Edited June 16, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 16, 2023 Author Share Posted June 16, 2023 I let the local heavy truck jobber source the clutch for me....sure hope they gave me the right one. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 does it act 'a-fool' in neutral? Im a little bit lost.. if the clutch fork is pulling the throw out bearing, then you should be able to start the engine with ease... sorry Bud,, i'm not adding this up very well.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) The engine starts and runs no problem. With the engine running, when I depress the clutch to the floor to wait a couple seconds for the clutch brake to do it's thing, I cannot get it into gear, it just grinds as if im trying to stab it into gear without pressing the clutch in. I can wait a long time with my foot to the floor, and still no engagement, it just wants to grind. Edited June 17, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 reread this entire topic three times to get on right brain thoughts. 1 - you stated the clutch linkage is different (based on picture) , does this have a clutch brake mounted on pilot shaft or is brake under pilot mounted to trans??- haven't looked at your reply Jojo ; still writing. 2- with a helper or 2x4 holding clutch pedal down , does the linkage come in contact with clutch brake??? a spicer /eaton clutch would have an internal adjust with clutch brake external adjust ;; the purpose of the adjustment shown in picture, a mack clutch would be external adjust with clutch brake internal. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 im sorry about my slow understanding.. I think you say when its in gear and you start it, with clutch pedal pushed it is still in gear? sorry bud, but that sounds like the clutch discs are installed wrong.. Maybe mechohaulic will see this and bring the light.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 my first thoughts were disc installed wrong /not releasing ;; have seen & done it. one disc has longer hub when installed backwards :: right place but backwards the center hubs on the two disc touch and won't release. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 first post states "going into a western mack";linkage picture shows a cable clutch linkage, add two together question now is 1- are both trucks same model :2- did both units have same cable linkage or is one mechanical vs cable linkage? 3- engine swap is topic: did transmission stay the same ??4- jobber sourced the clutch; do the clutches look the same ?? go with that for now. i've never had to measure free play with a tape just "eye ball ". check physical appearance with clutch pushed down see what not contacting what. also under these conditions : I would connect brakes system so it can be controlled Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I have worked on many trucks with messed up clutch adjustments and sloppy linkages and so on.. The ones that weren't totally broken, were still drivable, if only into the shop.. This is one, were, I wish I was there to see the issue happen.. With the info we have, I am leaning towards improper clutch parts and/or installation.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 any possibility of a picture from ground level looking up INTO bellhousing lower inspection / adjusting hole?? at this point we are all reading the same book ; we are just on different pages sorta speaking. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I assume the ''Dogs'' in the flywheel were positioned correctly, with the little tool that lines them up.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1/2in between throw out and new clutch brake was stated; that tells me its a spicer/eaton with pull clutch and brake on input shaft . clutch adjust internal on pressure plate with clutch brake adjustment on external linkage. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 YEP!!! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 so It was converted??? I did a flywheel conversion on a couple E-6 Super Dogs last year and the year before. Went to a 15 1/2'' easy pedal clutch on both.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 has to be a basic issue . try the pedal down see what is contacting or not ; have to keep us updated; these things are tuff on us ole folk not being there to check and say " there's the problem it's simple fix. " 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 where did the "shell answer man " go ?? how am I suppose to sleep tonight not knowing !!😂 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 He went away with the Ace Helpful Hardware MAN.... I bet they are on an Island living it up.... Just a thought.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 heck it's late off topic I go :: why did the tune come to mind when I read "the ace helpful hardware man"LOL Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Because I made you think it.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) The engine is a 235 and trans is a 107 six speed in both trucks. Same flywheels, different model trucks. Both had mechanical clutch linkages with a cable from the pedal. but slightly different linkage setup at the bellhousing, so that's a difference. The new clutch looked the same as the clutch that was in it, the numbers off the old clutch were cross referenced to the new clutch. I didn't mess with the dogs. What tool is there to align them? Yes the clutch brake is on the trans input shaft. It's a Babcock 2 piece. Same that was in there. Ya so the main symptom here, just so I stay clear in my ramblings; is the clutch will not disengage while the engine is running, to allow the transmission to be placed in gear. I installed the clutch on the flywheel/engine while the engine was on the ground being overhauled. It installed into the truck pretty flawlessly. Anti rattle "shims" were installed as per instructions in the clutch kit. I was new to those but I don't think they would be causing my grief. Im thinking the issue must be internal. Im hoping its just a sticking clutch disk that I can free up somehow, I just can't really drive it at the moment to free it up buy rough housing it a bit. I will take a pic and post it here so there can be a visual. Edited June 17, 2023 by Full Floater 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/3/#findComment-533116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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