Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Im wondering now if one of the dogs got out of whack when installing the center disk of the clutch. there was no slop in there had to give it a push to get the disk on. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Tomorrow I might try blocking up the rear axle and run it thru some gears and jar it with the throttle a bit Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Well Im very late to this a d have just read thru it all Lets assume it is all put together right and adjusted correctly My neighbor had a similar issue on a farm tractor and the flywheel must not of been fully machined to the edge, internal or external The new clutch would hang up on this small imperfection So the answer was simple, just put it into gear with a 3pl load on the tractor and start it up, once driving lower the implement into the ground, then push the clutch in The tractor would stop, let it slip for a few moments , repeat a few times to wear a tiny groove into clutch plate and it was fine So maybe something simple like this is the answer Put it in gear with the maxis on, put it in gear, push the clutch in and try winding it over with the stop pulled out and see what happens If it can wind over it is only just grabbing on a poofteenth of stuff all Paul 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayseed Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 6 hours ago, Full Floater said: Same flywheels, different model trucks. Are the Two Flywheel Housings Identical..?? Is It possible that the Clutch Shaft through the Bell housing is 180Degrees Out of whack..?? Quote "Be who you are and say what you feel...Because those that matter...don't mind...And those that mind....don't matter." - Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Paul has a good point... I too, have had to pull a clutch for a customer who put the clutch in, but did not have the flywheel 'machined'... the flywheel will have deeper wear towards the middle and the outer circumference of the flywheel will be higher, which will grab the outer edge of the clutch disc. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Yes the machine shop did leave maybe 1% of the outer edge un machined due to there rigging not being able to bit that far or something. There was next to nothing for a lip, but lets hope thats causing my problem! Hayseed-Yes they are the same flywheels. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 even if flywheel was not machined; couldn't be that bad disc won't disengage. if an old style fiber discs were taken out and "new" style button disc clutch was installed = still should work 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533126 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 have you tried the pedal down and inspect clutch brake underside to see if brake is tight against pressure plate throw out bearing?? even if it wasn't you shouldn't have had issue with truck not coming out of gear when running. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: have you tried the pedal down and inspect clutch brake underside to see if brake is tight against pressure plate throw out bearing?? even if it wasn't you shouldn't have had issue with truck not coming out of gear when running. Yes it's tight up against the brake when the pedal is depressed. Im pretty sure it would come out of gear with a quick blip of the throttle followed by pulling it out of gear, just that I didnt have room for that when I jumped into gear on me when I was messing with it so I had to pull the shutdown cable 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 not doubting your mechanical ability - going by situation ; I still go with internal issue with clutch disc installed backwards not releasing tension . have installed new clutch assy that still needed adjusting on pressure plate ring. with clutch brake being adjusted on outside adjustment. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Full Floater said: Yes it's tight up against the brake when the pedal is depressed. Im pretty sure it would come out of gear with a quick blip of the throttle followed by pulling it out of gear, just that I didnt have room for that when I jumped into gear on me when I was messing with it so I had to pull the shutdown cable something still not right by sounds. can't be in traffic not being able disengage clutch and stop Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 so flywheel WAS machined: leaving 1% outer edge due to machining capability OR because dogs were left in place ? after dogs removed/replaced = have used the center intermediate plate for realignment tool also. flywheel on floor install dogs , slide center plate back and forth till it slides easy after all dogs tighten . which brings about another question; were new dogs installed or reuse old . worn will break ba-ls as will new. new have to be perfect alignment or it will hang up. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayseed Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 39 minutes ago, Full Floater said: Hayseed-Yes they are the same flywheels. I was actually asking about the Flywheel Housings.. 4 hours ago, Hayseed said: Are the Two Flywheel Housings Identical..?? Quote "Be who you are and say what you feel...Because those that matter...don't mind...And those that mind....don't matter." - Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayseed Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 What are your engine Mounts Like. I've had a Truck where with worn Engine Mounts when the Clutch was depressed the whole Engine & gearbox were Moving ever so slightly forward & giving symptoms similar to what you're describing. Quote "Be who you are and say what you feel...Because those that matter...don't mind...And those that mind....don't matter." - Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Does that clutch have the internal "ring and pinion" adjustment setup? Is that set per the instructions? You mentioned having to pus one of the internal plates into place. That could be dragging...maybe? 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 hours ago, Hayseed said: I was actually asking about the Flywheel Housings.. I dont know. They appeared the same, but there might be discrepancies there. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Ok so, I blocked up the rear of the truck, plumbed in my service brake lines. With the engine running and the transmission in gear and spinning the driveline, I can apply brakes until the truck wants to stall (no clutch slippage occurring), then while maintaining steady pressure on the brake treadle, I step on the clutch and can stop the driveline. Then release the clutch and start it spinning again. So there is SOME disengagement however it's not fully disengaging. There is still some audible load on the engine as it still wanting to spin the driveline but I have the brakes applied. The instant I release the brakes the driveline is in full swing again. I rough housed it a bit on and off the brakes with the clutch 2/3 of the way depressed etc.... and im now pretty sure nothing is "seized" from sitting in a damp environment for a few months without use. Here are some pics with clutch applied, clutch released and linkage disconnected and pulled back in the last 2 pics to view the clutch brake. You can kind of see it in the last pic. The back side of the clutch brake (closest to the trans) has got some noticeable meat worn off of it, probably from me trying to get it working over the past couple days. I adjusted the quick adjust +/- a few times while doing this and no real difference in results. I don't know, I guess im pulling the damn transmission again...... Edited June 17, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Hayseed said: What are your engine Mounts Like. I've had a Truck where with worn Engine Mounts when the Clutch was depressed the whole Engine & gearbox were Moving ever so slightly forward & giving symptoms similar to what you're describing. another thought in reference to worn mounts== mounts worn bad enough to screw up engage/disengage :: the shift lever(levers) should rock back and forth or sideways if you prefer 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: another thought in reference to worn mounts== mounts worn bad enough to screw up engage/disengage :: the shift lever(levers) should rock back and forth or sideways if you prefer The 4 rubber mounts on the bellhousing/trans area are in great shape. I think they were replaced not too long ago by a previous owner. The front mount "seems" fine...not really too sure what to look for there. The shift levers do rock a fair bit. Actually more then my other 3 six speed trucks do Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 100 thanks for pictures ; big question is WHERE'S THE CLUTCH BRAKE? when you say "gave it quick adjust" = do you mean adjust from outside linkage? thats for clutch brake. the yellow tag on pressure plate (5/8th socket) is for adjusting clutch. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533154 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, mechohaulic said: 100 thanks for pictures ; big question is WHERE'S THE CLUTCH BRAKE? when you say "gave it quick adjust" = do you mean adjust from outside linkage? thats for clutch brake. the yellow tag on pressure plate (5/8th socket) is for adjusting clutch. Thanks for clarifying what term is for what when it comes to adjusting. I adjusted the 5/8 adjusting bolt (w/pedal depressed with a 2x4) to the point of having more then 3'' free travel in the pedal to almost no free travel. Equating to +/- 1/2'' gap between the TO bearing and the clutch brake. I use a piece of 1/2'' round stock bent in such a way to fit around the release fork to make that measurement. I also adjusted the external linkage rod. Neither of which made a noticeable difference. I have messed with both adjustments lots over the past couple days, but messed with them again during this test with the wheels off the ground so I can run the driveline. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Also the cable was replaced when I installed the engine/clutch and reassembled everything. It's a Mack sourced cable for the truck VIN that had the same specs as the old cable. Edited June 17, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, Full Floater said: The 4 rubber mounts on the bellhousing/trans area are in great shape. I think they were replaced not too long ago by a previous owner. The front mount "seems" fine...not really too sure what to look for there. The shift levers do rock a fair bit. Actually more then my other 3 six speed trucks do not dismissing motor mounts as to partial problem if sticks move excess. if this unit had strictly mechanical linkage ; meaning ALL steel rods/ clevis etc THEN motor mounts would have a greater impact on operation. having cable:: mounts not so much issue. did original unit have same clutch brake set up?not to be a bigger than am pain in ass BUT with clutch "engaged" what is clutch brake disc suppose to make contact with? should be nose cone of trans, all pictures sent helped out greatly can't see brake disc though Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 The clutch brake is the same brake that was in it when I pulled the old engine out. And its the same brake that's in the truck that had the donor engine. A Babcock 2 piece. Slides over the input shaft of the trans and mates up to that nose cone/plate unit with springs on the trans side, then up to the flat side of the TO bearing. It's almost as if there is no clutch brake action taking place. If it was a automobile with a manual trans, it would be like pressing the clutch down just barely, enough to not stall the engine when the trans is in gear, but not enough to easily slide the shifter in or out of gear. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 I can't really get a good pic of the clutch brake with the release fork in the way....but it's in there. Kind of sitting "loosely" in the keyway of the input shaft that is slide in on Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70511-235-swap/page/4/#findComment-533159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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