Mack Gazza Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 (edited) I have a 2004 Mack Qantum with a 470ccrs that will not start after timing out while at a fuel station, engine turns over perfectly but will not fire. Had a truck autolec check for 12 volt at ECU and is OK but no current at injectors! Mack technician came with new ECU but having trouble getting connection to ECU. All wires checked throughout cab for wear but coming up OK. Mack technician can read some info from VCM but cannot connect to the ECU to install data so truck still sitting around and Mack techs are stumped, has anyone here had a problem similar? Thanks Mack Gazza Edited October 21, 2022 by Mack Gazza Adding motor Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Fuse #40 under the hood?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 There is a “wake up” wire from VECU to the EECU. I’ll see if I can find the PIN numbers Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I looked at 2 different wiring diagrams for for a 2003 CCRS engine and got two wildy different answers. One shows the wake up wire and one didn’t . None of the PIN numbers matched each other on the power and grounds so I’m of no help. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Thanks joeymack and Mackpro, l will tell the technician of all these suggestions. Cheers. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 wonder if this is the technology we were talking about in the redesign forum! don't remember any B-models having a "wake up" wire . and to show my old age what is a CCRS engine or a VECU EECU . in B-model terms is that an injection pump to injectors . I don't think my 1/25 scale B-81 has a CCRS engine; and I know the 1/25 DM800 doesn't . that's being repowered with a 600hp t win turbo cummins. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 Current controlled rate shaping, Vehicle electronic control unit, Electronic engine control unit. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 I currently have my dash cluster out and my 2004 has a wire labeled vacuum wake up behind the cluster harness if that helps you any. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513289 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted October 24, 2022 Author Share Posted October 24, 2022 Thanks Larry H, Mack technician today managed after a lot of computing and talking on the phone to get the software on to the ECU but still no start! While he was checking voltage on the injectors l noticed a wire joiner/Junction from the camshaft position sensor that was cracked from being old and lots of heat over time and found the insulation on the wires was rotted allowing the wires to be touching, so next step is getting a new sensor. Would those wires touching each other stop the engine from starting on this engine? Mack Gazza. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 yes. and I would also check the sensor for the flywheel. Typically they will start and run on one or the other... jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 Thanks Joey Mack, have fitted brand new cam position sensor and still no start , as l have said a new ECU has been fitted but no or very very low voltage at the injectors, would there be any other sensors on this motor that would keep it disabled like this? This problem has us all pulling our hair out, any ideas are welcome......Mack Gazza Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 ok,, I have been posting on a few topics, so I get a little lost... Did you check the sensor wires at the flywheel sensor.. RPM/TDC.?? Do you know where all the grounds are? and did you check them? The big one on the left side of the block in front of the starter will be a problem if it comes loose.. It is probably the most important ground.. If you have access to the 9-2 code flow chart, it will guide you through, checking the grounds... I/We have posted this many times here.. its in the search bar.... (9-2 code)... i use this trouble shooter to solve more than just "Power re-set Without the Key" jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 what is the condition of the "Power Dist. Box" next to the steering column? I think fuse 40 is the EECM.. 3rd row from the left half way down, 25 or 30 amp's.. a lot of times the legend inside the cover, get's water damage and is hard to read.. jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 as far as EUP issues, are you getting any 8-? codes?? the big ground bolt in front of the starter is crucial.. it needs to be clean and tight.. Please do not use ether to start the engine.. Have you done any fuel system repairs? Have you tried to re-prime the fuel lines by loosening them at the head and pumping the hand pump to relieve the air? I'm just spewing now... I want to help you as do many others here. we need more info, try to keep it on point and accurate.. There are soooo many smart guys here, it would blow your mind.. jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-513529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 Update. Had truck towed to the Mack dealership to do further work to try and work this motor out and after lots of fiddling around they got it started but cannot tell me what the problem was which is not what l wanted to hear as it will make the truck unreliable,on top of that they are finding it is pushing out coolant from the coolant reservoir and started talking about head gaskets/ cracked heads etc, l suggested injector cups and they said yes we will do those first and see if they were the cause before going further. Whew. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-514701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 sorry bud, but they aint doing cups in an E-Tech CCRS.... Who ever said they will do them, should have told you... "we dont change the injector cup's" The labor isnt worth it, and WE rarely ever see an injector cup fail in a 'Gray Motor'.. Please be sure they know how to fix your engine... jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-514703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Yea they will gladly charge you for an MP injector cup job on your etech. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-514704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 Ask them to do proper diagnostics to your truck…Sounds like these guys are gonna empty your wallet. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-514705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 also sounds like they dont know what type of engine he has.. So then they will bill him for their education... 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-514708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Have them do a combustion gas test on the cooling system. That will tell you what direction to go next. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-515005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 Thanks guys, Mack are doing tests at the moment to find a direction to follow, will post outcomes when available. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-515071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Gazza Posted December 3, 2022 Author Share Posted December 3, 2022 Hi to all who followed with advice on how to get this motor going again, it seems that it was the cam position sensor lead and connector to the wiring loom that stopped the engine in the first place and spiked the ECU at the same time, after Mack getting getting it started using ether it ran fine meaning there must have been a lot of air in the injector pipes!! As for the pushing out of coolant Mack checked the thermostat and found it to be broken and replaced it and now after some hard hilly climbs loaded up it is not doing it and also is keeping in a better heat range easily. As Joey Mack and Onyx610 suggested it cost a lot of time and thus money to sort this problem. Thanks for all the help, Mack Gazza. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-517051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamkar Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 My Qantum has gone and done the same thing in my yard, I’ve done all the grounds I can find. So when yours done the sensor Gazza, did it ruin the ECM requiring a replacement? BTW, for a little while now, mine had been bringing up code 8’s randomly, mainly 8-5 but all all them at different times. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-526039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (8) codes are the EUP's.... 8-5 is the #5 EUP.. check the EUP harness for damage, chaffing, bare wires, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70596-470ccrs-will-not-start/#findComment-526040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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