Pulling injectors on a 673

[Craig N]

I’m thankful for all of you’re knowledge, too!  Thanks a bunch everyone. 

[mowerman]

Does this mean we forgot all about the mice ??????also Mecho  I think you’re paranoid after your gone sour  pull start caper  besides you’re really going 10 miles an hour and still have front brakes ha ha I was thinking about mounting a small air compressor on the side of my frame with a Briggs & Stratton just another idea 

[Craig N]

What mice?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:18 PM, Craig N said:

So the door tag says “B 613 S”

Anyone know anything about the 613 S part?

Like others have said, the "613" indicated an ENDT-673 engine.  The "S" indicates "six wheel" (tandem) chassis.

Those "double splined" axles are the ticket.  We had those on all our heavy spec stuff.  Usually carried spares in the truck (as well as a set of U-joints).

You definitely have a couple of good trucks to play with there.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:18 PM, Craig N said:

So the door tag says “B 613 S”

Anyone know anything about the 613 S part?

Like others have said, the "613" indicated an ENDT-673 engine.  The "S" indicates "six wheel" (tandem) chassis.

Those "double splined" axles are the ticket.  We had those on all our heavy spec stuff.  Usually carried spares in the truck (as well as a set of U-joints).

You definitely have a couple of good trucks to play with there.

[67RModel]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:13 PM, Craig N said:

One thing to think about if you swap your green cab onto the tandem dump chassis is the brakes. Looks like you have BW type 20 brake chambers on your drives. I believe the part number is 227851. As you probably already know they are just service chambers with no provisions for spring / emergency brakes. I assume this truck has a hand brake lever in the cab and a brake drum assembly on the output yoke of the transmission for parking.  The service chambers you have are long obsolete and finding rebuild parts / replacements for them is very hard. The other bad thing about this setup is the fact that you can't just stick a 30/30 chamber or similar on there with some additional air plumbing and call it good. The clearance to the wheel is too tight. The mounting hole center-to-center is the same but the overall diameter and length are issues. A 20/24 chamber won't even fit. I have the same setup on my B81. I pondered this a lot and tried several different types and sizes of brake chambers. Basically your only two options are to 1: fabricate brackets that offset the chamber toward the frame to gain clearance from the wheel and use an offset slack adjusters. Or 2: obtain a pull style spring brake only chamber and mount it 180 degrees of the service chamber to pull on the slack adjuster with a small chain. I have seen several old (mid sixties) DM800s with this setup from the factory although they used steel rods instead of chain. I guess it was before the compound chambers were perfected and/or common.  Haldex still makes pull type spring brake chambers but they are insanely expensive (around $400 each). I don't think you necessarily have to change them over since I'm guessing it will be just for hobby use / antique vehicle but for me the thought of a 15,000 pound vehicle rolling down the road with no way to stop it if there is a sudden air loss is scary. The good news is for a hobby truck you probably only need to convert one axle to have emergency brakes since you won't be hauling any weight. Just something to think about if you use the tandem chassis.....

[Craig N]

10 hours ago, doubleclutchinweasel said:

Like others have said, the "613" indicated an ENDT-673 engine.  The "S" indicates "six wheel" (tandem) chassis.

Those "double splined" axles are the ticket.  We had those on all our heavy spec stuff.  Usually carried spares in the truck (as well as a set of U-joints).

You definitely have a couple of good trucks to play with there.

So the “S” indicated 6 wheels?  This one’s got 3 total, 2 drive so must’ve been switched out at some point in its life. Thanks!

[Craig N]

8 hours ago, 67RModel said:

One thing to think about if you swap your green cab onto the tandem dump chassis is the brakes. Looks like you have BW type 20 brake chambers on your drives. I believe the part number is 227851. As you probably already know they are just service chambers with no provisions for spring / emergency brakes. I assume this truck has a hand brake lever in the cab and a brake drum assembly on the output yoke of the transmission for parking.  The service chambers you have are long obsolete and finding rebuild parts / replacements for them is very hard. The other bad thing about this setup is the fact that you can't just stick a 30/30 chamber or similar on there with some additional air plumbing and call it good. The clearance to the wheel is too tight. The mounting hole center-to-center is the same but the overall diameter and length are issues. A 20/24 chamber won't even fit. I have the same setup on my B81. I pondered this a lot and tried several different types and sizes of brake chambers. Basically your only two options are to 1: fabricate brackets that offset the chamber toward the frame to gain clearance from the wheel and use an offset slack adjusters. Or 2: obtain a pull style spring brake only chamber and mount it 180 degrees of the service chamber to pull on the slack adjuster with a small chain. I have seen several old (mid sixties) DM800s with this setup from the factory although they used steel rods instead of chain. I guess it was before the compound chambers were perfected and/or common.  Haldex still makes pull type spring brake chambers but they are insanely expensive (around $400 each). I don't think you necessarily have to change them over since I'm guessing it will be just for hobby use / antique vehicle but for me the thought of a 15,000 pound vehicle rolling down the road with no way to stop it if there is a sudden air loss is scary. The good news is for a hobby truck you probably only need to convert one axle to have emergency brakes since you won't be hauling any weight. Just something to think about if you use the tandem chassis.....

You just answered a bunch of questions I had about this brake setup.  Stopping is just as important, if not more so, than being able to move. I’m going to be driving around with my 10 year old and my old lady in the cab, I need to be able to stop. I’d rather have the brakes engage if I run out of air then disengage. I think I’m going back to pulling the motor and trans on this one and swapping it into the green one. It’s more work than just swapping cabs, but that’s fine. Thanks for explaining the setup on this dump truck so well. There’ll be 4 less tires to worry about too, which will be good.  

[Craig N]

I drove the 10 wheeler around a bunch today. What a nice driving unit. It really doesn’t feel like a 62 year old truck. I drove a fair amount of old Mack’s and Autocar’s when I used to drive and this one feels just fine. I’m excited to get these projects going. I need to make a good plan and get moving on it. 

I’m wondering if I should just pull the engine on the red one or if I should pull the engine with the trans and just swap everything. I know the trans works and clutch feels ok, though it grabs a little high on the pedal. I’d hate to just swap motors only and find out something’s wrong with the duplex in the green one. It would be nice to see what I’ve got for clutch in each though if I just pull the engine. I hate to sound lazy, but I feel like it would be easier to pull engine and trans in one unit.  It’s not that I don’t want to do it, but like the rest of us, I have so much other stuff going on between work, the kids sports schedule, house projects, yard projects etc etc. I guess first step is to get the nose off of each unit and go from there. 

[mechohaulic]

on some early maxi can set ups not having clearance , the can is still push type but it's mounted inside the frame rails with through the frame arm linkage with as you say a steel rod going back to the service brake chamber and pulling it on . rods broke as mentioned chains installed.

[mechohaulic]

suggestions can be made by many;; the final answer is yours. how you are set up for HD work etc..one goal is "KEEP IT FUN". when it becomes a job,  time for another hobby.

[Joey Mack]

seems like there was a change 30 years later...   a 612 was a single drive axle and a 613 was tandem..  Man I have a lot more to learn...     Luv it..  Jojo

[mechohaulic]

don't think i have a lot more to learn but there is a lot I hope to learn:  😁! especially about those under the exhaust injectors your picture shows.  How did I do ;; brought  the topic back to injectors :::LOL

[Joey Mack]

Mech,,?  are you talking to me about the engine pics I posted, or someone else.. ?  jojo

[mechohaulic]

yours  in frame blue paint   from topic of engine painting. spent alot of time studying the differences in " new engines

[Joey Mack]

oh.... ok...  the paint is actually Mack Gray Engine paint...  yes, that is an E-Tech...  It has similar horizontal injector line ports as the E-7..  The injectors are mounted the same way as an E-7.  The E-Tech has 1 fuel pump per cylinder, instead of an in-line injection pump.   I will stop here, so that I don't steal this thread..   P.M. me if you want to know more, or tell me to shut-up...    Jojo  

[mechohaulic]

never the shut up . would rather drive down to NC (visit my sister) then stop by your shop and assist in engine build. think this has to go to the chat box before I'm (we) are in trouble.

[Craig N]

This thread is for ALL OF US and whoever gets to read all this great knowledge in the future!  It’s not gonna upset me by talking about trucks in here haha. 
 

30 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

suggestions can be made by many;; the final answer is yours. how you are set up for HD work etc..one goal is "KEEP IT FUN". when it becomes a job,  time for another hobby.

I’m set up pretty good at work to do this HD stuff. I have access to fork lifts, 8k extended forklifts (Lull), front loaders and a concrete floor with a roof over my head. I have a backhoe at home I can use fro some stuff but am better set up to do motorcycles and pickup trucks at home than I am working on big trucks haha. No roof over my head for the big stuff   Half the fun with all these projects is the work that goes into them. I’ve never been afraid to ask questions and ask for help if I really need it. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Craig N

[mechohaulic]

your all set then . now it's not the physical pressure but the mental pressure;; making the decision as to which way to continue on with the build. take time building the first one with the option of building the second.

[Joey Mack]

yep.....

[mechohaulic]

when you have those "down attitude days"  just pull up the post from Matt on B73 restoration _start  from the beginning reading and checking the pictures if they don't get you motivated  nothing can, just sayin . keep telling yourself """ i can do that" 

[mowerman]

That would be wonderful if we could all just wake up and work on her toys all day. Yes, Craig most of us have the same problem. All we can do is talk about it and go back to the home projects ha ha…. Bob 

[mowerman]

Oooooooooooo ya 12 hour work shift forget about that. Good luck bud. Don’t drive yourself crazy and yes it’s your trucks. Do what you want. Bob

[Craig N]

I hope to get some time this weekend or next week, mid week after work. Gonna start stripping the green truck down. Pull the nose and cab off then yank the motor. I’ll probably pull the motor separately so I can get a look at the clutch behind it. I think I’m gonna pull the motor and trans out of the red one in one piece and install it as one unit.  I know it all works well. Will be a bit before I get to that point I’m sure.

[mowerman]

Yes, the wheels of success shirt turns slow on these projects as I mentioned, there’s always something a head of my DM I can’t just drop everything at work on it like I would like ha ha mine doesn’t really need too much big shit just a lot of little things … Bob