Pulling injectors on a 673

[Craig N]

1 hour ago, theakerstwo said:

Dont use any heat and dont take any manifolds off.You can remove a couple head bolt nuts to give you some more room there and you dont know any one that has pulled as many of these as me so i can tell you your not going to break the ears off.

Oh that’s good!!  I can get the heels in there, I’ll just put some extra leverage on them. Only 2 left, I’ll get ‘em.  The ears are super thick, and old steel is good steel, so I’ll give it hell. 

 

54 minutes ago, fjh said:

I’m not far behind you Glenn!

its way worse to do on a 285 the aftercooler adds some extra excitement to the job ! You’ll get them ! Do you have an air hammer? That would get it moving!

I do, but I don’t know if there’s any room to get it in there and I don’t know how much I’d get it to move while it’s sitting on the studs. I’ll keep at it!

[Craig N]

Anyone think I should take apart the injectors?  I can get that big nut off the top then it looks like a flat for an open end wrench in there with a  set screw of some sort at the top. Is it worth it? Should I fiddle with them or leave them be?

[mechohaulic]

number one rule is SUPER CLEAN  before taking top half of injector off. the screw slot you see is the adjusting screw for the injector setting/pressure. if the two are difficult (breaking b--ls). i would take off the valve covers  before the water/ intake manifolds. alot of rags/towels what ever to keep rocker area VERY CLEAN  from all the crud in the picture. a heel bar  has  more room from valve side. number two make sure every injector removed STILL HAS the brass/bronze washer attached . i always took a cardboard box upside down ; cut 6 slots and labeled each one ;;1-6 . as an injector is pulled; place it in the slot corresponding to the cyl it came from. makes life easier when you find an injector missing a bronze washer to  locate the hole it came from. another try which im leary of stating is to double nut the injector studs; if they loosen will give less restriction to the rotating of the injector. there is ONLY 1/4'+- of thread . can't use to pressure inj out; it will screw up the stud or worse the head threads. it does work ;;I've done it . 

[fjh]

1 hour ago, Craig N said:

Oh that’s good!!  I can get the heels in there, I’ll just put some extra leverage on them. Only 2 left, I’ll get ‘em.  The ears are super thick, and old steel is good steel, so I’ll give it hell. 

 

I do, but I don’t know if there’s any room to get it in there and I don’t know how much I’d get it to move while it’s sitting on the studs. I’ll keep at it!

its amazing what a little vibration will do! vibration and pry at the same time! pulling them apart is an absolute last resort 

[Joey Mack]

I'm NO E-6 pro, By Any Stretch of the word, but when I pulled the injectors from some heads that I had,,  I did not use heat, but I did use the studs to help jack the injector out.  It took over an hour per injector because I didnt want to cause ANY damage, and avoid damage to the threads in the heads. even though I had a good rebuilt set to go back in..  I purposely took my time, as sort of a learning experience..  I got them out and yes I did damage some of the injector studs,  I had new ones..  i was able to save the injectors.  of course my heads were on the bench.  I had room to work.  I suggest you pay attention to Glenn and FJH...  

[mechohaulic]

i sure hope my wife doesn't read that one . if she knows its ok to use the vibrations and still pry🤣🤣. I'lll never have any privacy. those batteries only last so long  LOL

[Craig N]

27 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

number one rule is SUPER CLEAN  before taking top half of injector off. the screw slot you see is the adjusting screw for the injector setting/pressure. if the two are difficult (breaking b--ls). i would take off the valve covers  before the water/ intake manifolds. alot of rags/towels what ever to keep rocker area VERY CLEAN  from all the crud in the picture. a heel bar  has  more room from valve side. number two make sure every injector removed STILL HAS the brass/bronze washer attached . i always took a cardboard box upside down ; cut 6 slots and labeled each one ;;1-6 . as an injector is pulled; place it in the slot corresponding to the cyl it came from. makes life easier when you find an injector missing a bronze washer to  locate the hole it came from. another try which im leary of stating is to double nut the injector studs; if they loosen will give less restriction to the rotating of the injector. there is ONLY 1/4'+- of thread . can't use to pressure inj out; it will screw up the stud or worse the head threads. it does work ;;I've done it . 

I’m gonna go ahead and pry more tomorrow, maybe put the air hammer on the side of the injector while I pry. Hope to get them off without having to pull the valve covers or take any head bolt nuts off. If I have to I’ll double nut the studs and try to pull them out, but won’t unless I have to. 

[Craig N]

25 minutes ago, fjh said:

its amazing what a little vibration will do! vibration and pry at the same time! pulling them apart is an absolute last resort 

Air hammer is coming out tomorrow!!  I’ll vibrate and pry at the same time and do some wishing and hoping at the same time haha. I was really wondering if I should pull them apart after I have them out, not while in. Just thinking I should clean them up, but not sure what to do really

[Craig N]

23 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

I'm NO E-6 pro, By Any Stretch of the word, but when I pulled the injectors from some heads that I had,,  I did not use heat, but I did use the studs to help jack the injector out.  It took over an hour per injector because I didnt want to cause ANY damage, and avoid damage to the threads in the heads. even though I had a good rebuilt set to go back in..  I purposely took my time, as sort of a learning experience..  I got them out and yes I did damage some of the injector studs,  I had new ones..  i was able to save the injectors.  of course my heads were on the bench.  I had room to work.  I suggest you pay attention to Glenn and FJH...  

how did you use the studs to help jack out?  The injector studs or head studs?

[Craig N]

22 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

i sure hope my wife doesn't read that one . if she knows its ok to use the vibrations and still pry🤣🤣. I'lll never have any privacy. those batteries only last so long  LOL

Hahahaha!!

[fjh]

1 minute ago, Craig N said:

Air hammer is coming out tomorrow!!  I’ll vibrate and pry at the same time and do some wishing and hoping at the same time haha. I was really wondering if I should pull them apart after I have them out, not while in. Just thinking I should clean them up, but not sure what to do really

If you pull them  apart they have to be reset

[Joey Mack]

the inj. studs had a hex head in the middle, 7/16" if i remember right..  but you really need to pay attention to Glenn and FJH,  and take their advice.. I only posted what I did, because I was desperate and had no other way to get it done. I didnt have their help back then..  jojo

[Hayseed]

Why Not just pour some Possum Piss ( or what ever brew takes your fancy) down the 4 holes you have & see if you can free the old Girl Up...!!

All the while still work on pulling the other 2 Injectors..

[mrsmackpaul]

8 hours ago, Craig N said:

Anyone think I should take apart the injectors?  I can get that big nut off the top then it looks like a flat for an open end wrench in there with a  set screw of some sort at the top. Is it worth it? Should I fiddle with them or leave them be?

No definitely not

 

Drop the tail shaft, put in gear and use a porta on the yoke of the tail shaft to move the motor

 

Pry bar is the go, lots of possom piss as Hayseed suggests

Be careful with heat as you might crack the head or stuff the injector

People sometimes screw a slide hammer into the top of the injector, but this normally just breaks a really stuck injector 

 

Paul 

[Craig N]

8 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

the inj. studs had a hex head in the middle, 7/16" if i remember right..  but you really need to pay attention to Glenn and FJH,  and take their advice.. I only posted what I did, because I was desperate and had no other way to get it done. I didnt have their help back then..  jojo

Ok, I’m gonna keep going with the prying, I’ll leave the studs alone and follow instructions ha

[Craig N]

2 hours ago, Hayseed said:

Why Not just pour some Possum Piss ( or what ever brew takes your fancy) down the 4 holes you have & see if you can free the old Girl Up...!!

All the while still work on pulling the other 2 Injectors..

I’ve got weasel piss down the other 4 injector holes, I put mostly mystery oil and some PB blaster in there. I’ll have at it today and see how far I get

[Craig N]

1 hour ago, mrsmackpaul said:

No definitely not

 

Drop the tail shaft, put in gear and use a porta on the yoke of the tail shaft to move the motor

 

Pry bar is the go, lots of possom piss as Hayseed suggests

Be careful with heat as you might crack the head or stuff the injector

People sometimes screw a slide hammer into the top of the injector, but this normally just breaks a really stuck injector 

 

Paul 

I’ll leave the injectors alone then. I’ll keep away from the slide hammer and heat too. 

[BOBWhite]

If the motors stuck I'd take those heads off. They're going to be full of crud that'll need to be cleaned out, and leaving it will score up the cylinders. If the rings are stuck or broken it might not even start. Plus how do you know that it's the motor stuck and not the transmission or something else? But I'd be lying if I said I've never put a bar on it and broke an engine loose without removing the head

Edited November 10, 2022 by BOBWhite

[Craig N]

3 hours ago, BOBWhite said:

If the motors stuck I'd take those heads off. They're going to be full of crud that'll need to be cleaned out, and leaving it will score up the cylinders. If the rings are stuck or broken it might not even start. Plus how do you know that it's the motor stuck and not the transmission or something else? But I'd be lying if I said I've never put a bar on it and broke an engine loose without removing the head

Could be any number of things. Clutch seems to work properly as seen from viewing through the inspection hole in the bell, so I’m assuming the clutch and trans can be ruled out. I’m going with the easiest route before I pull the heads. The injectors, although two are being stubborn, are easier to remove than the heads. If I can’t turn the motor after letting the cylinders soak for a while I’ll go from there. I’ve unstuck some other motors (not Mack, not diesel) with oil soaking and a breaker bar with no I’ll effects, so here’s hoping I don’t snap any rings and ruin the cylinders/sleeves haha. 237 going in if that happens I guess lol

[Craig N]

Well, I didn’t get anywhere with it tonight after work. I pried on those injectors with pipe  extensions on the heel bars with all my might and didn’t get anywhere. I can’t believe how stuck those two are. All the others came out fairly easy. 
 

I tried putting a 1” breaker bar on the 1 5/8” crank bolt and didn’t get anywhere with that either. I jacked up the rear end, put it in high gear and tried spinning the wheels but it just made the rear end slip. I think I may have to keep one set of wheels on the ground if I want to get anywhere with that? I’ll try dropping the driveshaft and putting a porta-power on the yoke off the transmission, as mrsmackpaul suggested, if I can’t get anywhere with wheel spinning. Weasel piss has in been in the cylinders for a day. I’ll let it sit for a few more days and see where it gets me.  I guess if all else fails I’ll try tow starting it in a week after the cylinders have really soaked. Might have to pull the heads. At that point I might think about putting a 237 in. We’ll see what happens. 
 

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I’m just getting started, I’ll give it hell trying to get this thing free. 

On another note, anyone seen a fuel filter like this?  It’s not really mounted to anything, just kind of sitting on the crank case:

[Craig N]

Also, looks like the line that goes to “in” on that fuel filter comes from the crank case behind the injection pump near the air compressor?  Am I looking at that right?

[Joey Mack]

At the risk of sounding foolish,,,   Since the engine is seized, and you have tried really hard to get it to rotate. Do you think you might break something else trying to get it freeded up? I have freed up a few engines, not many, just a few..  I usually have the heads off,  and then lots of weasle piss, and a 4x4 block on the piston and a mallet.  I dont just dive in aggresively, I look at it for a bit to make sure I wont hurt something, or myself  ....  I did this to an ENDT 673 2 years ago, and (2) John Deere 3179's in the last year.  I new that I had new pistons and re-build kits, but I tried to be cautious..  When I got the pistons out, and tried to use my liner puller,  non of the liners would move due to rust and age..  I welded beads inside the liners, to shrink them, then used my liner puller...  anyway, Im just telling you what I did on 3 engines in recent years..  and with the heads off, you can see what condition it is in..  jojo

[Craig N]

44 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

At the risk of sounding foolish,,,   Since the engine is seized, and you have tried really hard to get it to rotate. Do you think you might break something else trying to get it freeded up? I have freed up a few engines, not many, just a few..  I usually have the heads off,  and then lots of weasle piss, and a 4x4 block on the piston and a mallet.  I dont just dive in aggresively, I look at it for a bit to make sure I wont hurt something, or myself  ....  I did this to an ENDT 673 2 years ago, and (2) John Deere 3179's in the last year.  I new that I had new pistons and re-build kits, but I tried to be cautious..  When I got the pistons out, and tried to use my liner puller,  non of the liners would move due to rust and age..  I welded beads inside the liners, to shrink them, then used my liner puller...  anyway, Im just telling you what I did on 3 engines in recent years..  and with the heads off, you can see what condition it is in..  jojo

You aren’t sounding foolish to me. Sounds like you took your time and had some patience haha.  Yeah, I might end up with the heads off this one I guess. Was trying to avoid it but I guess all in all it’ll be less work to pull the heads and get it free than it will be to replace the motor. I’m just anxious to get it running and was hoping it was going to be easier than it has lol.  I suppose I’d be better off taking my time, pulling the heads and trying to break it free that way rather than yanking it around the yard with a loader and chain and possibly wrecking rings that I can’t replace.  I’ll get those injectors out with the heads off at least haha

[Joey Mack]

Yes sir..  another concern I had was, if you were to free it up after 'Giving it Hell'...  then actually get it to fire up,,  what will cut loose??  and cause more work if it's not 'Fatal'?  I truly understand being anxious...  Ive been there many times, whether it was a dirt bike, snowmobile, lawn equipt... and so-on..  I have blown some engines because i was in a hurry,,  ..  anyway,  you got this...  jojo

[theakerstwo]

If you force the engine to turn you could bend a rod.