ENDT 673 in cold weather

[skydawg]

My engine always started immediately in warm weather,now at 30 deg it requires multiple cranking attempts probably totaling 12-15 seconds,and seems to smoke more. I`m guessing the engine is probably a little tired and cold compression a bit low.Or is this normal diesel behavior?Since heated indoor storage isn`t in the cards,is there a way to warm it up before starting?No block heater as far as I can tell.

[MACKS]

You can install a block heater if it doesn’t have one already,well worth the effort..

[doubleclutchinweasel]

What he said.  Block heater makes more difference than anything else.

On the '70 I had, I found the wiring for the existing block heater folded up and twist-tied together, tucked in behind the oil cooler.  Apparently, nobody had ever been aware it was there.  I ohmed it out to make sure it wasn't shorted to ground, plugged it in, and voila!  Made a huge difference on these cold mornings.

[skydawg]

Where would it be located if I have one?

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Mine was a cable coming out the water jacket on the driver's side of the block.  I will see if I can find a picture somewhere.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Inside the red oval is the wiring I found for mine.  Seems like the heating element was screwed into one of the water jacket plug holes, if I remember correctly.

[skydawg]

Ok,I`ll look for that.Thanks to you both.

[fjh]

38 minutes ago, doubleclutchinweasel said:

Inside the red oval is the wiring I found for mine.  Seems like the heating element was screwed into one of the water jacket plug holes, if I remember correctly.

just above the starter!

[Freightrain]

Mine was in the center core plug on drivers side.  I had to remove it when I installed the spin on filters due to clearance issues and the cord.

If I recall mine had teminals and cord just screwed on.

When I first got my truck, it sat outside for a couple winters.  At 19* I tried starting it.  Besides a bit of cranking it came to life with no assistance.  I had four 12v batteries so it would crank for days and never slow down.

Now it is a garage queen.  I am curious if the air start would get it running with no assistance if it sat outside one night.

[skydawg]

When you say water jacket plugs ,are they the freeze plugs in the block?

[BOBWhite]

24 minutes ago, skydawg said:

When you say water jacket plugs ,are they the freeze plugs in the block?

Yes most block heaters are in the same spot or take the place of freeze plugs. If your engine doesn't have a block heater than you'll have to take out a freeze plug and put one in. I believe there all about the same size throughout the industry so finding one shouldn't be hard. 

Ive seen some other styles that take place of radiator hoses and some in the oil pan but I think the block heater works the best. 

[doubleclutchinweasel]

33 minutes ago, skydawg said:

When you say water jacket plugs ,are they the freeze plugs in the block?

Yep.  We always called them "freeze plugs", but, in reality, they should be called "core plugs", since their PRIMARY function is to allow sand to be poured out of the casting after the iron cools.  Usually, if anything freezes and pushes out a plug, there's already more damage done than you want!

I am pretty sure the ones on my truck screwed into the block.  And, Like bob said, one had been taken out and a heater screwed in that hole.  I BELIEVE mine was in the center hole in the block, but I do not remember for certain.  They have probably been put into different holes at one time or another.

[h67st]

These guys are right, even a tight engine will crank longer and smoke more when it's cold.

[mechohaulic]

should have the screw in plug. later yrs came out with the "car style" ;pry out . I had a drag link 3/4 drive screw driver socket for the removal of the plug. round off the edges so it fits the plug. then there have been the plugs which would NOT come out. magnet near the plug and small drill making a lot of holes to split the plug.  DO NOT  bend the element to install. plug above starter isn't alot of room. we won't discuss another option to heat a cold engine ::: fire pail under the oil pan: yes have done it . mostly on excavators etc outside. and one S O B  Cummins that hated the cold.

[Mark T]

Just curious , do you understand how to start a cold diesel ?   Cold engines need a rich fuel mixture . This means the throttle should be all the way to the floor during cranking !!!!!!  BUT RELEASED AS ENGINE BEGINES TO FIRE !!!!!!  this is a little tricky to master and only applies during cranking.  Your description is pretty normal for a cold diesel engine. Like stated , nothing shy of a heated garage inside does the trick like an immersion heater. (fancy name for a block heater in case you find yourself searching and come across that name)  Old Macks weren't the worst to get running in the cold, after it fires and runs by itself, it'll smoke (sorta whitish blue) and after a little idling adding a few hundred RPMs won't hurt ( @ 400 or so maybe somewhere around 1000 RPMs on the hand throttle ) Watch and make sure it has oil pressure and listen. It'll sound different than a 75 degree day for a bit. But after a little warm up, should sound about normal.

[mechohaulic]

OH the good ole days. watching the exhaust warm and change colors. amazing thing for me is ; back in the good days with all the exhaust smoke i never noticed the inside windows of my vehicle get as cloudy as they do today with all the emission BS. and i don't smoke .

[mechohaulic]

the splice the water line add on heaters are defiantly better than nothing. they take a lot longer to heat an engine ; still work. another DO NOT;; don't ever start an engine with a block heater plugged in. it ruins the element . cascades air bubbles to form on the element and shortens the life span of the element

[terry]

5 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

the splice the water line add on heaters are defiantly better than nothing. they take a lot longer to heat an engine ; still work. another DO NOT;; don't ever start an engine with a block heater plugged in. it ruins the element . cascades air bubbles to form on the element and shortens the life span of the element

Yeah I ran one of these for years in a B model dump, most of the time just plugged it in the evening before , but it done a real good job of keeping block warm.   Terry

[mechohaulic]

for sure the in-lines work; just a lot slower. like you said= plug it in night before. another thought on the in lines;; don't go and buy a cheaper one not having a circulating pump. location is also critical on in lines.  heat (hot water ) rises . thats the purpose of in lines with built in pumps to help move the water .common practice was to install in the cab heater line. if heater was in off position water didn't move tooo fast. 

[mechohaulic]

my diesel hino had a block heater ; plugging it in night before gets expensive . I made up a small board with HD timer and longer extension cord. still have it .(timer not the hino). set it for 2-4 hrs before i would  be leaving next AM . worked mint. so was the truck. 

[Joey Mack]

Interesting post on block heaters..  I know that the 'Katz' block heaters I am familiar with were reliable. What I was taught, was to plug it in at the end of the work day while the engine was hot, and it would maintain a warm temp.  I was told that they were not going to take a cold engine and bring it up to a warm temp for the AM. start up..  I learned this in Maine..   anyway,  just my input,  and this was over 20 years ago..   jojo

[Freightrain]

I used to have a Katz circulation heater in my 70 F100 way back.  Worked awesome.  You put a fitting in bottom of the block(water passage) and then the feed line to heater.  It pulled from bottom of block, heated it and then ran it through the heater.  It had thermostat so it only ran as needed.  

 

Yes, starting the B in the cold you held the throttle WFO until it started to cough and run on 2 cylinders.  It would then keep catching cylinders and run fine.

[skydawg]

Thanks for all the info.And I didn`t know to floor the pedal,I thought the injection pump compensated for different temp mixture requirements.It`s Not Easy Bein` Green.

[Joey Mack]

You got this, Kermit....     

[terry]

1 hour ago, Joey Mack said:

Interesting post on block heaters..  I know that the 'Katz' block heaters I am familiar with were reliable. What I was taught, was to plug it in at the end of the work day while the engine was hot, and it would maintain a warm temp.  I was told that they were not going to take a cold engine and bring it up to a warm temp for the AM. start up..  I learned this in Maine..   anyway,  just my input,  and this was over 20 years ago..   jojo

Yeah i believe the hater i had in my mack was a katz, done a terrific job.   terry