Todd71106 Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 I’ve got a deleted 2013 GU713 day cab oilfield truck. It’s got an MP8-415c with 330k miles. Anybody know the size of the banjo bolt on the front of the cylinder head for the fuel return line ? I know a 22mm socket fits it. I want to make a fitting with clear hose to check for air bubbles and foam. The inside of both fuel tanks looks like an aquarium with all the bubbles. I’ve replaced the fuel filter housing, filters, fuel pump and the fuel lines are good. I got the truck last year with 270k and it has always been hard to start. It has become increasingly difficult to start. It has developed a loss in power and a shaking shudder around 1200-1400 rpm and sometimes the engine dies. Is there an aftermarket set of cups that performs better or of higher quality? What’s the difference between the $1500 set of injectors on eBay and Amazon vs. the Mack injectors that the dealer say they can’t get right now ? I do most of my own work on the truck, but I’m not sure I want to attempt a job like this. It’s difficult to find a shop in the area that is willing to take on this job. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) 22mm... or 7/8" some others are 24mm... You have to remove the rocker shaft to do this job.. It would be good to have the torque sequence.. it is 13 steps.. plus the other info, like injector pre-load adjustment.. Do you have the book, or at least that section of the book.. ? jojo Edited December 18, 2022 by Joey Mack wrong info Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd71106 Posted December 18, 2022 Author Share Posted December 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: Do you have the book, or at least that section of the book.. ? jojo I’ve got a 28 page service bulletin from 2013. I don’t have a service manual. I know I guy with the injector pullers and installers, but he has never used those tools, so they are still brand new brand. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) With all-due-respect.. If you choose to do this job,, Please get the section of the book for this repair.. It is a good bit of work, and it would suck to get it all together, and have a bad seal in a new cup.. Good luck sir.. Jojo Edited December 18, 2022 by Joey Mack poor sperring.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd71106 Posted December 18, 2022 Author Share Posted December 18, 2022 I definitely DO NOT want to do the job. Problem is finding a shop or someone in NW Louisiana or East Texas that can and will do the job. Truck has been down for 2 weeks now. I was going to get all the parts so when I find someone it would speed up the process. I might have a lead on a shop in Waskom, TX Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 Sounds good.. Smart Idea to get all the parts ready.. supply issues have been bad, as you know.. I wish I knew of a company that makes after market cup sets, I always struggled with the idea that you had to replace the injectors, because of the cups.. Stay in touch, there are quite a few guys here that are currently working on MP engines... I ran away from them 4+ years ago.. Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd71106 Posted December 18, 2022 Author Share Posted December 18, 2022 Will the injector cups eventually get bad enough that the truck just will not start up anymore? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 yes.. If it gets worse, you can pump the primer to get fuel up.. I have loosened the return on the front and pumped til fuel was present then lock it down and pump a few more times.. then turn it over,, Keep an eye on the oil level and make sure it is not rising.. I have had over crank protection, shut the starter off before it fires up.. you may wear out the primer, but the MP-8 primer pump is replaceable, without buying the whole filter pad.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 38 minutes ago, Todd71106 said: I definitely DO NOT want to do the job. Problem is finding a shop or someone in NW Louisiana or East Texas that can and will do the job. Truck has been down for 2 weeks now. I was going to get all the parts so when I find someone it would speed up the process. I might have a lead on a shop in Waskom, TX Your better of going to a mack or volvo dealer ship that has the tooling for this project! You can pre plan all you want you always find your short something! Also it can get so bad even priming it will not keep it running! specially if you are working it hard! Just sayin! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Onyx610 Posted December 18, 2022 Solution Share Posted December 18, 2022 You can skip the test, you for sure are a candidate for cups. The cam does not need to be removed but the rocker shaft does. Also injectors can be reused if the sealing areas and non sealing areas on the tip of the injectors are ok. Most people just put new ones in anyway. They just get 6 cups and a 6 pack of injectors even if they only have a couple that are bad. Now if you’re putting in a new injector it needs to have a new sleeve/cup regardless. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 42 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: You can skip the test, you for sure are a candidate for cups. The cam does not need to be removed but the rocker shaft does. Also injectors can be reused if the sealing areas and non sealing areas on the tip of the injectors are ok. Most people just put new ones in anyway. They just get 6 cups and a 6 pack of injectors even if they only have a couple that are bad. Now if you’re putting in a new injector it needs to have a new sleeve/cup regardless. Yup ! Pay attention to Onyx610! Also injectors can be reused if the sealing areas and non sealing areas on the tip of the injectors are ok!!!!!! You don't want to do the job twice! Its a warning ! Don't over look it! Seen this job backfire trying to cheap out! Be absolutely sure your injectors a usable! Just sayin! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 (edited) yeah i meant rocker shaft... sorry.. i got lost for a second... Edited December 19, 2022 by Joey Mack pore sperring.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 Onyx,, Thank you for noticing my mistake.. I edited my post for any future reference.. Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 It’s all good! Us regulars know what you meant! Todd, I recommend a Mack/Volvo dealership and Mack genuine parts. Just like FJH said. However if you really have a hard time finding someone to do the job YOU can do this! Especially if your friend has the tools and you get the procedure. Also JoeyMack, FJH, MackPro, and myself will be here for any help you may need. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Onyx610 said: It’s all good! Us regulars know what you meant! Todd, I recommend a Mack/Volvo dealership and Mack genuine parts. Just like FJH said. However if you really have a hard time finding someone to do the job YOU can do this! Especially if your friend has the tools and you get the procedure. Also JoeyMack, FJH, MackPro, and myself will be here for any help you may need. Moral support from me only 🙏 I’m just a side walk superintendent!😂 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) Don’t let these two fool you, they know alot more then they want to know about the red engines. Especially when it comes to cups. I’m a strong believer that you can handle this job if need be. Edited December 19, 2022 by Onyx610 Spellings 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd71106 Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 Thanks everyone. I would like to do the job myself, but can’t afford anymore downtime. The guy that deleted my truck is going to change out the injector cups for $2040. I’ll reply back if this solves my problems. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Ahhh deleted truck, that info always seems to be left out haha. No wonder you were having a hard time finding someone to work on it. Glad you were able to get some one and appreciate you coming back to let us know what the outcome is. I’m almost positive this will be your fix. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: Ahhh deleted truck, that info always seems to be left out haha. No wonder you were having a hard time finding someone to work on it. Glad you were able to get some one and appreciate you coming back to let us know what the outcome is. I’m almost positive this will be your fix. It's mentioned in the first sentence of his post. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Missed that part haha my bad Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 At least you didnt tell him to pull the cam instead of the rocker shaft.. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 Lots of dealerships won't even touch a deleted truck, let alone have it in the shop all tore apart. Lots of specialty tools required for cups, and not the ideal thing to learn as you go on one of them. Most likely it is the truck's issue, or the fuel filter housing. My money's on cups. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I agree with you Mark.. The last Mack Dealership I worked at would refuse ANY deleted truck.. As far as the tooling, I made some comments on that early on.. Myself, I have only done about a dozen cup job's.. I saw guys do them in a few hours, but they did not use the bore protectors for the cleaning process, and skipped a couple other cleaning procedures like blowing out the journals. and they also did not run the valves after re-setting the rocker shaft. when I did them, I took twice as long to get them done, and they didnt come back for re-work.. (Proud to say it)... I stress the importance of having the section in the book to do the job, as well the tools... I WILL NOT be buying the tools to do these repairs in my shop.. I will stick with E-6 -- Aset's.. jojo 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 2 hours ago, Joey Mack said: I agree with you Mark.. The last Mack Dealership I worked at would refuse ANY deleted truck.. As far as the tooling, I made some comments on that early on.. Myself, I have only done about a dozen cup job's.. I saw guys do them in a few hours, but they did not use the bore protectors for the cleaning process, and skipped a couple other cleaning procedures like blowing out the journals. and they also did not run the valves after re-setting the rocker shaft. when I did them, I took twice as long to get them done, and they didnt come back for re-work.. (Proud to say it)... I stress the importance of having the section in the book to do the job, as well the tools... I WILL NOT be buying the tools to do these repairs in my shop.. I will stick with E-6 -- Aset's.. jojo Really ! not up to the challenge buddy ! ? Or just smart! I choose the latter!!😇 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, fjh said: Really ! not up to the challenge buddy ! ? Or just smart! I choose the latter!!😇 Come on you guys, I know how much hate you have towards this engine (been through this how many of times?) but cups arnt bad. Done one done them all??? 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70890-banjo-bolts-injector-cups/#findComment-518701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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