2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 I just acquired a 2004 ch613 dump truck. Has the e7 with egr. Problem is that it won’t start without a little ether. Once it spins over just a little faster it fires right off and will run great. If you shut it off and let it sit more than 5 mins it won’t start again. Have replaced cam and crank sensor, fuel primer, fuel pump, return line check valve so far. Also on another not the fuel gauge, oil temp and pyro gauges won’t move or work at all. I put new sending units in all three with no change. When i unplug the dash cluster and then plug back in all the gauges sweep. Speedo and tack work, oil pressure and water temp work. Where do i start as far as those go? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 What is your battery voltage? if you got less than ten volts on the crank it won't let the engine have fuel! also check the grounds on the block and the starter connections! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 Batteries are 12.4 and it cranks really good. Starts and runs all Day with just a little ether. It’s not a battery or power issue. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 What is the voltage drop while it is cranking?? Like FJH said, below 10 volts, the EUP,s won't fire.. of the starter pulls a lot of amps, it will lower the available voltage for the EUP's.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 11.8 cranking. It’s got voltage and cranks really fast. Batteries are all new and everything voltage wise looks good. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 A man that i worked with a few years back had a 02 E7 that was same way.It would start cold but not hot.i check the voltage at cranking and it was holding at 10.5 volts.I did not have time to do any more being i was trying to run a dump truck my self so i told him to take it to mack.First thing they did was replace the starter and no more problem after that.The strter sound like it was turn engine good to me when hot but any way he be ok now. 2 Quote glenn akers Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 It spins really fast hot and cold. It’s nothing about being hot. It’s only when it sits. Overnight or 10 mins it doesn’t matter. Weird thing is it will just try to start at every key cycle. Like a quick couple cylinders fire but not quite enough. Cycle the key and it does it again but won’t start. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) Have you attempted to see if there are any fault codes active or not? Edited December 24, 2022 by Onyx610 Spelling Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 There is an active fault code for egr mass flow. That and fuel sensor shorted high and egt probe shorted high. Both the sensor are new so wiring is bad somewhere but i think it may be the dash cluster. No codes for anything that would make it not start. Cam and crank sensor are new. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Could the fuel system be sucking a tiny bit of wind? Just enough to loose prime? Had this happen on my series 60 Detroit. Man worked on the return line and used one of the push to connect fittings. It didn’t hold 100%. It wouldn’t start after sitting a few minutes. Ether would get to light up. And at idle it would slowly want to die unless you gave it some throttle. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 I have fixed many bad wires at the flywheel sensor, on the engine side of the 2 wire harness.. I find the insulation rotted off, and sometimes frayed wires, and even a terminal in the plug, loose and pushed in too far to make a good contact.. and as stated, a starter that is drawing to much power, can cause this issue. I assume you don't see any outside diesel leaks around the file pump or lines.. is the oil level rising due to a leaking fuel pump seal? Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 No rising oil level, had an external Leak at the primer pump but replaced pump since then. My next step is going to be replace the suction lines from the pump all the way to the tank. That’s really all I have left. Will check the wiring harness at the crank sensor. But the crank sensor itself is new. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 I wish. Ether was not needed.. it's not healthy for a diesel.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 My guess at this point is the suction side between the pump and tanks, that’s really all I haven’t replaced at this point. But was trying to rule any other odd problems out of there were any with this particular engine. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Yes check the RPM/TDC harness.. I suggest you take the heat shields off and look really good at the EUP wires.. they tend to rub through, and can short out against the block.. it is a bit of a long shot, however, I have fixed many of them too.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-518999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 Once it’s running it’s idles smooth and runs good so although the eup wires could be an issue i don’t think so. Once in a while when i crank it shortly after i shut it off it fires a little then dies out and then catches itself and idles. Seems to help if i put the throttle to the floor for some reason. But that only if i had just shut it off minutes before. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Ok.. im grabbing at straws.. I guess since you confirm the elec. Issues are out, for the most part.. I guess it's back to loss of fuel prime.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 Seen a bad eup keep one from starting Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 One bad eup should only cause a miss though, and it idles and runs good. So that points to the eup being fine and operational. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 (edited) It was shorted, it kept the whole truck from starting. No codes either. But yea had a slight miss Edited December 24, 2022 by Onyx610 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 14 minutes ago, 2wdiesel2021 said: My guess at this point is the suction side between the pump and tanks, that’s really all I haven’t replaced at this point. But was trying to rule any other odd problems out of there were any with this particular engine. Can u pressurize the fuel tank and look for leaks in the fuel lines.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 That’s what i am going to do Monday. See what happens. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 once again check the grounds on the block under the starter and the starter connections! Rule out the cheap and easy first! you have all ready parts cannoned it by the sounds of it! Just saying! also check your tank vent! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wdiesel2021 Posted December 24, 2022 Author Share Posted December 24, 2022 Well a little bit of a parts cannon. Just the cam and crank sensor really. Hoping these suction lines fix the issue Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, 2wdiesel2021 said: Well a little bit of a parts cannon. Just the cam and crank sensor really. Hoping these suction lines fix the issue Yup Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/70921-2004-ch613-with-e7-won%E2%80%99t-start-without-ether-then-runs-fine/#findComment-519016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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