I need a 12 volt starter for my '48 KB-7

[Vladislav]

4 hours ago, Mark T said:

Guy was explaining about the canisters in the front of it. Had exploded view of the inertia starter, history of the truck's purpose.   I loved it.

I haven't seen that track. After ending of the initial one Youtube showed me another with WW2 plane being started with that same style of setup. Would be interesting to learn more about the Federal. It's definitely a former WW2 vehicle either. I just didn't have time enough at the moment to rifle through the movies to find the correct one.

[Vladislav]

6 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

Yes Vlad.  It is a low compression gasser.. it is set up for hand cranking, I just don't have a crank handle.. so I will be making one.  I expect it to be just fine.  It runs good and starts right up.  I wonder if I should run a choke cable to the grill so I can choke it up front.. what do you think?? 

Hmm.. Sounds like a not bad idea. I have 1944 Mack NM in my stable which has its original EY707 gasser and it's operational (Dutch guy I purchased the truck from overhauled it). It's too huge to be hand cranked but starts right up using one 90Ah 12V battery. It always surprizes me how a very slow revving engine makes a spart and starts making tra-ta-ta like an idling Harley-D. Usually I close chock for 3/4 and add hand throttle for a half of wire travel. Both made a way they gets back after 1st sparks in cylinders have taking place. But I have to hold choke knob pulled by hand sometimes for 10-20 seconds more keeping the engine from dying. So your idea with "remote control" makes sence. Worth to admitt I fire up the truck ocassionally, no more than 1-2 times a year on avarage. So I didn't pay attention to the carburator and settings of control cables. Possibly it might operate smoother if cared up more.

[Joey Mack]

Yes. Points and a condenser in the distributor. 

[Joey Mack]

Thanks Vlad.. yeah I think a neatly placed choke cable in the grill would be cool, and probably get some conversations started when I take it to a show..   

[Mark T]

2 hours ago, Vladislav said:

I haven't seen that track. After ending of the initial one Youtube showed me another with WW2 plane being started with that same style of setup. Would be interesting to learn more about the Federal. It's definitely a former WW2 vehicle either. I just didn't have time enough at the moment to rifle through the movies to find the correct one.

 

[Mark T]

That guy that owns the Federal may be some distant relative of Otherdog.  He looks a little like him at a glance.

[tjc transport]

2 hours ago, Vladislav said:

 (I was going to type "a woman" with cross out letters but seems they are not avalible anymiore) 

here ya go Vlad:

https://www.piliapp.com/cool-text/strikethrough-text/

type in what ya want to "strike through" than scroll down and copy/paste here. 

[mrsmackpaul]

6 hours ago, Vladislav said:

There is common practice of sleeving brake cylinders and making them to closest size of avalible seals. A friend of mine used to make brass liners. My guess was they wouldn't work really long because of wear but he stated that's fine for hobby use. And no chances they rot.

Probably you knew that and too possibly you know it better than me 

Stainless steel sleeves are the go out here

 

Last for ever, longer than a new wheel cylinder does

 

Paul

[Licensed to kill]

15 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

.  I wonder if I should run a choke cable to the grill so I can choke it up front.. what do you think?? 

My 1931 Model A delivery had a length of haywire running from the choke to/through the grill so that the choke could be operated from the front while cranking. 

[Licensed to kill]

9 hours ago, Vladislav said:

There is common practice of sleeving brake cylinders and making them to closest size of avalible seals. A friend of mine used to make brass liners. My guess was they wouldn't work really long because of wear but he stated that's fine for hobby use. And no chances they rot.

Probably you knew that and too possibly you know it better than me 

I was hoping that I could find cups a bit bigger so I could bore out the cylinders but was prepared to sleeve them otherwise. Either way shouldn't be too difficult. Might still do that if the replacement cylinders are pricey. We will see. I have a LOT of projects ahead of the KB.

[Licensed to kill]

Joey, I am curious, my '44 has a factory electric fuel pump mounted on the firewall. Does yours?. I assumed that it was a "firetruck" thing as you need them to start right way but maybe it was just standard on the IH's. 

[Joey Mack]

Mine has a mechanical pump on the left front corner of the block. Cam driven.  As far as cost of rear wheel cylinders, mine were $375.00 shipping included. Jojo

[Vladislav]

22 hours ago, Mark T said:

That guy that owns the Federal may be some distant relative of Otherdog.  He looks a little like him at a glance.

I belive Jeff Lakazchik is a known person in the antique truck world. I don't remember showing him up on here, maybe he's more to military vehicles than Macks. Would be funny to discower he's a ralative to Other Dog.

Thanks for the link to the video. It was definitely interesting to see.

[Vladislav]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:49 PM, Joey Mack said:

I could keep it 6 volt, for some reason I thought it would be better, and cheaper to maintain.  I already installed 12 volt headlights. Hate to waste that 50 bucks:)  I do believe the engine ran better with the 12 volt battery instead of the 6 volt battery that's in it now..  I guarantee I wasnt the Mad Guy..  jojo

I've got an idea which ocassionally popped up in my mind while I was spinning thoughts of better use of the FRO tranny.... Never mind. If you keep 6V arrangment you may intstall small 6V battery separately (off a scooter or so?) and connect it to the ignition system. So the latter wouldn't be affected by voltage drop while cranking. I'd connect it to the generator circuit through a diode to supply with charge and not discharge when starter is in operation.

[Geoff Weeks]

I know this is a older thread, but having two of the same model truck, I thought I would comment.

 The good reason for staying 6 volt is the wipers and gauges. Both are  pain to change. Today you can get "solid state" voltage converters so that is less of a problem.

 A picture of exactly what is wrong with the present starter would be helpful. I have built three 737z starters and finding parts was never a problem.

 12 volt through the 6 volt will not be a problem, in most cases a smaller 6 volt and 12 volt starters use the same armature, only field coils differ. Larger starters 12 and 24 volt armatures are the same, again with differ.

 Hand cranking: I have a 525 CID that I have hand cranked, but wouldn't want to do it often! Also cranked a 9 cyl P&W radial with an inertia starter, you best get it to run on one try, or your done and bring in a fresh body for the 2nd try!

 I will be fitting an air compressor for one of my 269's. They were an option, you could get a K-7 with full air brakes. Not common, however.

 If you show me the problem with the starter you have I may be able to walk you through repairing.

I have H-4 six volt headlights, on my K's and feel every bit as good as 12 volt versions (55/60 watt).

Edited June 27, 2023 by Geoff Weeks
typo's

[Joey Mack]

Thank you..  I will try to get some pictures..  my gauges are a little rough.. oil pressure works, and amp. Gauge sits on zero when running, speedo works, fuel gauge is bad, someday I will get back to working on it..  I have been taking care of other repairs lately..   thank you very much..  

[Geoff Weeks]

May some help for your gauges. Haven't used him yet myself but some people have and are happy with results.

[Joey Mack]

G.W.   I really appreciate you willingness to help me..  When I get the concrete pad in front of my shop, finished, I plan to put ''Sanford''  there and do bits of work between the 2 engines I am re-building for other folks.  I keep acquiring parts and have built up quite a lot of parts..  Mostly for my wiring conversion..  Sorry bud,,  I am going through with the 12v changeover..  But he the starter worked well with 12volts going to it,,  It is just old and worn out..  the next 2 parts I need will be a water pump and an alternator pulley that will fit on a 22SI Delco alt.  for the wide belt that is on the truck..  Thank you,  Jojo

[Geoff Weeks]

With the electronic "converters" 12 volt isn't the problem it was.  Often I saw burned up gauges and wiper motors back in the day. Now there are good ways to protect and feed 6 volts to these things. The heater (if it had the old 'barn door" heater) had a special motor that could be run both directions to direct the warmest air to the cabin or the defroster. People have not found a 12 volt replacement.

 I would not give the starter motor a bit of thought, running on 12 volt, it should do just fine as long as you want.

 12 volt generators abound with the wide pulley. I have had a 17SI on my K with a wide pulley (producing 6 volts)

 Alternators often run smaller pulleys to turn faster, producing power at a slower engine speed. Unfortunately the wide belt can be a problem here. They can't transmit as much power as a modern V belt. It is easy to overpower the wide belt with a modern (high output) alternator. I think anything over 60 amps will be a problem, you may even have problems at 60.

 I have picked up several old generators, and they all worked fine all these years later. One of my K's has a rare 50 amp 6 volt generator. Also a friend gave me a 100 amp 6 volt Leece Neville alternator from the 40's or early 50's.

 I have 3 269's with 5 spd transmissions, two in trucks and one spare.

 Parts that are hard to find for these trucks are

wiper motors (in good condition)

Main and rod bearings,

Gasket kits

Liners (these engines are dry lined)

Inner seals for the rear axle bearing nuts

Felt seals for the front wheel bearing.

 The engine family started in the late 20's or early 30's as wet lined (FAx series) and grew to the dry lined (BLD) and then to parent bore (BD 282 and 308) lasted until the late 60's although they weren't common after the SV line of V8 engines out in the late 50's, most trucks got the V8 unless the customer ordered the 6.

[Geoff Weeks]

Waterpumps are not plentiful, but any one for the engine family right up to the last 308 in the sixties should bolt on.

 I have rebuilt with common industrial waterpump "face seals". The impeller can be a bit fragile, so be careful if you disassemble. You'll need a puller to get the pulley off the shaft, they seam to be on tight! I haven't seen a "rebuilt" one for sale in a long time.

[Geoff Weeks]

Wow, I don't think so!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175576184243?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=175576184243&targetid=1645685074008&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9018177&poi=&campaignid=20133407470&mkgroupid=147476396765&rlsatarget=pla-1645685074008&abcId=9312979&merchantid=426121152&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3LuLw97k_wIVT97jBx389wD2EAQYASABEgI71PD_BwE

[Freightrain]

Joey, you will find that Geoff is a world book encyclopedia of information!

He will be a great addition to BMT.

[Joey Mack]

$500.00 for a water pump..  I have no problem trying to rebuild mine, however, it is still working and not leaking.  Once I drive it around my neighborhood and get it good and warmed up, I will know better.  

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Just an FYI on 6V starters running on 12V...

Used to build dune buggies out of VW Beetles.  Sometimes ended up with a combination of parts that left us with a 12V system running a 6V starter.

Never recall seeing a 6V starter fail from running on 12V.  Ever.

[Geoff Weeks]

As I stated before, most smaller starters use the same armature for 6 and 12, only the field coils change.

What is different between your VW and this starter, is the old Delco uses an inertia drive, which can hit a little harder on the higher voltage. There is a helix on the drive and the weight of the drive itself tends to resist the motors "spin" which  moves the drive into the ring gear. There is no solenoid operated shift fork like many starters used today.

 Having said all that, it is unlikely cause a problem. If it were to have one, it is likely to be when the engine fires but doesn't continue to run, and the starter is still energize by the operator. This can cause damage to the drive itself,when the drive re-engauges with the ringgear but the motor will be OK.in most cases.