Turn up E7

[95RD]

I have a 1995 RD 688 with and e7 350 all mechanical. I have heard for years how you can turn these engines up. To 400+ horsepower but I can’t find any information on how to do this. Does anyone have any information on how to do this. Do you change the injectors? Turn the fuel pump up? If so, how. 

[fjh]

Be careful! Google turn up 5.9 Cummins the same pump be advised that a candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long! It’s a little harder to do on tha Mack as the screws are directly behind and under the manifold.suggest ten thousandths increments. Don’t get carried away!one screw is tamper proof may cause issues!

[95RD]

Thank you!  What about increasing the injectors.  Can you replace them with larger more powerful ones? 

[dogg rescue]

Get a set of Rochester fuel injectors. 

[brettj3876]

On 3/20/2023 at 9:11 PM, 95RD said:

I have a 1995 RD 688 with and e7 350 all mechanical. I have heard for years how you can turn these engines up. To 400+ horsepower but I can’t find any information on how to do this. Does anyone have any information on how to do this. Do you change the injectors? Turn the fuel pump up? If so, how. 

Get a pyro if you don't have one. You will need it with the stock turbo. That stock turbo will be out of its efficiency range. To do it right I'd also do a bigger turbo that will lower your egt's and stage 2 Rochester injectors. 

 

The injectors won't supply anymore fuel than the pump will flow. But turning up the pump with stock injectors will give it a longer pulsewidth (meaning more time to deliver the fuel, thus increasing egt's and in theory retarding the timing because fuel is still being squirted in closer to TDC). Stage 2 injectors will squirt the fuel in faster and give it a better burn. 

I would go with a S475 (75mm) with a 1.15 exhaust housing or a 1.32/ The s475 comes with the 1.32 housing and you can get it for 650-700ish OEM borg warner. The 1.15 exh housing can be bought separately for 200-250. It will have a quicker spool up but won't breathe as good on the top end.

As far as timing I would leave it alone at 1st and ask Antrim what they would do. They'll probably say don't bump it more than 2 degrees. 

We have the pump opened up all the way and all the mods I just listed. The guy that built it put in different barrel and plungers (same 12mm but they came out of some AG equipment, that's all he'd tell us) 

All this was done during an inframe over 200k ago with 15.3:1 pistons. Doesn't burn any oil between changes. Little less than half gal. Which is normal consumption. 170 thermostat and it won't see over 200 degrees on a hot summer day running in hill country. And pyro won't go over 950-975 

Remember when you turn up a diesel you want to run a little higher rpm than stock. Even though it will have power down low like a maxidyne don't lug it below 1350 for any length of time. Lugging a turned up engine will kill it faster than anything else. I personally don't take it lower than 1350 unless I'm just about to top a hill. 

 

Respect the extra ponies and it'll last just as long as stock. 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by brettj3876

[fjh]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:50 PM, brettj3876 said:

Get a pyro if you don't have one. You will need it with the stock turbo. That stock turbo will be out of its efficiency range. To do it right I'd also do a bigger turbo that will lower your egt's and stage 2 Rochester injectors. 

 

The injectors won't supply anymore fuel than the pump will flow. But turning up the pump with stock injectors will give it a longer pulsewidth (meaning more time to deliver the fuel, thus increasing egt's and in theory retarding the timing because fuel is still being squirted in closer to TDC). Stage 2 injectors will squirt the fuel in faster and give it a better burn. 

I would go with a S475 (75mm) with a 1.15 exhaust housing or a 1.32/ The s475 comes with the 1.32 housing and you can get it for 650-700ish OEM borg warner. The 1.15 exh housing can be bought separately for 200-250. It will have a quicker spool up but won't breathe as good on the top end.

As far as timing I would leave it alone at 1st and ask Antrim what they would do. They'll probably say don't bump it more than 2 degrees. 

We have the pump opened up all the way and all the mods I just listed. The guy that built it put in different barrel and plungers (same 12mm but they came out of some AG equipment, that's all he'd tell us) 

All this was done during an inframe over 200k ago with 15.3:1 pistons. Doesn't burn any oil between changes. Little less than half gal. Which is normal consumption. 170 thermostat and it won't see over 200 degrees on a hot summer day running in hill country. And pyro won't go over 950-975 

Remember when you turn up a diesel you want to run a little higher rpm than stock. Even though it will have power down low like a maxidyne don't lug it below 1350 for any length of time. Lugging a turned up engine will kill it faster than anything else. I personally don't take it lower than 1350 unless I'm just about to top a hill. 

 

Respect the extra ponies and it'll last just as long as stock. 

 

 

 

Yup totally agree on the pyro !

[brettj3876]

2 hours ago, fjh said:

Yup totally agree on the pyro !

Before the inframe and before we converted it back to a mechanical engine we had the blixxton. The egt's would climb super fast, you had to constantly watch the pyro and back out of it and drop a gear. It would easily go past 1100 if you didn't pay attention. 

[fjh]

5 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

Before the inframe and before we converted it back to a mechanical engine we had the blixxton. The egt's would climb super fast, you had to constantly watch the pyro and back out of it and drop a gear. It would easily go past 1100 if you didn't pay attention. 

Did you ever check for boost leaks?

[Joey Mack]

I am by no means as proficient on this engine as I am on the next generation..  But,, my question is...  was there a different injection timing setting that needed to be in place..  My rusty mind remembers 5 degrees B.T.D.C. on a mechanical Robert Bosch pump, if you have the Shwitzer S400 So41 turbo (stock setting). The turbo may not be part of the equation...   Mechohaulic???  He needs you!!!!

[95RD]

Pyro is on order!!  I will let you know what temps the egt's are at once I have it.  The fuel is turned up now and is definitely helping.  I am being very careful not to lung it any.  I am staying about 1400 rpm. 

[brettj3876]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:16 PM, fjh said:

Did you ever check for boost leaks?

Yeah and got a new charge air cooler. No boost leaks, just too much fuel for that small turbo. That was if you lugged it below 1400. Keep it above that and about 950 was the max

[brettj3876]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:39 PM, Joey Mack said:

I am by no means as proficient on this engine as I am on the next generation..  But,, my question is...  was there a different injection timing setting that needed to be in place..  My rusty mind remembers 5 degrees B.T.D.C. on a mechanical Robert Bosch pump, if you have the Shwitzer S400 So41 turbo (stock setting). The turbo may not be part of the equation...   Mechohaulic???  He needs you!!!!

That 95 being a full mechanical would be a P7100. Not the semi electronic pump with the electronic gov housing. 

I don't have a book on hand but the mechanical ones were in the area of 17-21 degrees fixed time.

 

 

[Joey Mack]

ok..  I have  a '94 book.. i can take a look..  

[Joey Mack]

I did have the '95 book... I hope this helps you. 

[JoeH]

Stock that engine should make 30+ psi of boost. If you were making less than that then I'd suspect boost leak. Our 95 E7-350 had dropped down below 25 psi, so we checked for leaks and found a nice long crack down the weld on the charge-air-cooler.

[Joey Mack]

I bet the crack was on the right side......   

[brettj3876]

1 hour ago, Joey Mack said:

I did have the '95 book... I hope this helps you. 

That pic is for the mechanical right not vmac? I can't see it very good on my phone. 

 

Do they have some sort of timing advance like cat does on their inline pumps? I remember some of the E-6s being around 19-21 degrees. 

I was under the assumption that all the e7 mechanicals used the same P7100 not the Robert Bosch or AM 

 

I have the timing at 20 degrees right now. Started out at 16 and that was too retarded....ran like shit 

With that low of timing it has to have some sort of advance as it goes up through the rpm. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by brettj3876

[mechohaulic]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:39 PM, Joey Mack said:

I am by no means as proficient on this engine as I am on the next generation..  But,, my question is...  was there a different injection timing setting that needed to be in place..  My rusty mind remembers 5 degrees B.T.D.C. on a mechanical Robert Bosch pump, if you have the Shwitzer S400 So41 turbo (stock setting). The turbo may not be part of the equation...   Mechohaulic???  He needs you!!!!

reading this post a couple days later.  been occupied else where lately . reread every comment at least  twice while racking the " micro films " in brain cells. Dam  ; can't remember . the 5 degrees BTDC  bosh pump  correct. 1 1/4 cut box wrench for removing #1 plunger remember. rest of numbers drawing a blank. 

[Joey Mack]

Mech.. there are many settings.. I don't know all of them.. the 5 degrees was a vague memory of setting timing on. Robert Bosch pump.. I do NOT know how to flow time..  I happen to own a timing tool for R.B. pumps,. It helps me get it right..  

[Joey Mack]

The 1 1/4" inch cut wrench was for Ambach pumps if I remember right.. anyway,. I posted the pages for a 350 E-7.. hopefully it helps.. I don't have enough skill to do more than that through text messages..

[fjh]

35 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

Mech.. there are many settings.. I don't know all of them.. the 5 degrees was a vague memory of setting timing on. Robert Bosch pump.. I do NOT know how to flow time..  I happen to own a timing tool for R.B. pumps,. It helps me get it right..  

This would be a vmac setting I believe joe! 19 to 24 for mechanical!

[Joey Mack]

Bingo..  I knew I was forgetting something...  Thanks, FJH

[mechohaulic]

ambach draws another blank . can remember the flywheel timing marks , two man job  made it easier.one turning engine with bar watching marks vs pointer  while other pumped the hand primer and watched fuel flow from number one barrel.  then timing went to front crank balancer with a timing light. reason to this day I always painted the fan blades different colors. not for pretty but to see location of spinning blades while my hand went with timing light  VERY close by. don't realize how an all black spinning fan can be mis calculated for location . knuckles will verify that.  holding light / watching marks then the rapid sound of knuckles in way of fan. 

[Joey Mack]

I remember using a photo tach and reflective tape to check RPMs.. I wish I was smart enough to paint the fan blades.. I have shaved many knuckles on my hands, but the ones on my head are perfect..

[brettj3876]

On 4/5/2023 at 7:43 AM, Joey Mack said:

Bingo..  I knew I was forgetting something...  Thanks, FJH

Yeah I kinda figured that was a vmac. Right now we have the timing at 20 degrees. Might try bumping it up to 22 and see how it likes it. When we first had it at 16-17 degrees it didn't like it at all, too far retarded. Right now we're averaging 6.2-6.3mpg running all hill country. Closer to 7 if we run all light loads for the week 

Fun fact, I found the tag off a ME-7 650hp marine engine. 15.3:1 compression and 23 degrees timing 

I like how the mechanical 3406b/c have the timing advance with the governor so it advances it as rpms go up instead of fixed time 

Edited April 7, 2023 by brettj3876