67RModel Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 I'm pretty sure this is a dumb question but I'm not sure. There are several questions here but they are all related. Do spoke hubs require a specific tire/wheel size? Do all demountable rims (dayton wheels) have the same inner dimensions allowing them to go on any spoke hub? If you wanted to change the tire size on a Mack steer axle from 11R24.5 tires to 315/80R/22.5 tires would it just be as simple as obtaining the proper width (9.00 x 22.5) dayton wheels and putting them on or do the hubs need changed too? To add some context to this question I have a 94 RD with 6 spoke hubs on the steer axle with 11R24.5 tires (I am not sure of the casting number on my hubs at the moment). I would like to change the steer tire size to 315/22.5 if it is not overly expensive. Would I need different hubs for this project? Would my single steering box hold up and turn the 315s? This is more of a want than a need but I'm trying to figure out what is involved. Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 (edited) If memory serves!!!! If not, somebody will correct me!!! Small spider takes 20" tube type and 22.5" tubeless tires. Large spider takes 22" tube type and 24.5" tubeless tires. So, 20" and 22.5" are interchangeable. 22" and 24.5" are interchangeable. To change between those 2 groups requires different spider. I had 20" tube type on the rear of mine, and 22.5" tubeless in the front. Those were interchangeable. Edited April 17, 2023 by doubleclutchinweasel Fat Fingers 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Have to think this one out more; running late . a 11R24.5 is basically a 22 in wheel; a 22.5 =20 in wheel. thanks for verification double clutch .i'm going with to do a change over as stated hubs need changing . will the steering box take strain ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 did a couple of changeovers in the day before the tubeless .5 idea . when things were a bolt on system , bearing/ hubs/ drums reused only the spokes were changed to go 20in to 22in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 definitely NOT a dumb question. I always felt it was dumb not to ask when in doubt rather then have something go wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 17, 2023 Author Share Posted April 17, 2023 That's what I'm thinking and Doublecluthin's response kind of confirms what I was thinking but wasn't sure about. If I had 11R22.5 steers currently I would probably be in business but since I currently have 24.5" wheels I would need to get hubs suitable to accept 22.5" wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 Yes, you would need a set of small spiders. I'm sure the junk yards are full of them. Maybe even some new sources still out there. Some were made by Kelsey-Hayes, some by Gunite. Not sure who all made them. I know Accuride USED to sell new ones, but I do not know if they still do. I'm sure some of these guys will have the part numbers for the hubs and related parts (brake drums, bearings, etc.). Probably somebody on here wanting rid of some 'cause they put Budds or Alcoas on one. Might even be somebody looking for the "big" ones you have. Incidentally, I had mine backwards in my first post. The 10.00-20 tube types were on the front and the 11.00-22.5 tubeless were on the back. Brain slipped there for a minute. When I got it, there was a mix of both types on the rear. But I found a good deal on a bunch of recaps and made the rear more uniform. The fronts were pretty good, so I never messed with them. Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 3 hours ago, mechohaulic said: did a couple of changeovers in the day before the tubeless .5 idea . when things were a bolt on system , bearing/ hubs/ drums reused only the spokes were changed to go 20in to 22in. You may have a point there. He might just have to swap the spiders. The hub and drum may not even need to come off. But, I do not know for sure. Hell, I'm just happy when somebody asks a question I know a little about! Most of the guys on here know so much that I feel too dumb to answer most of the questions! Sure do miss Glenn. He could have told exactly what was needed. Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 17, 2023 Author Share Posted April 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, doubleclutchinweasel said: Probably somebody on here wanting rid of some 'cause they put Budds or Alcoas on one. I found an older posting on here from back in late 2021 a guy had everything for sale. Spokes, bearings, wheels with 315 tires mounted and all the wedges and lug nuts.....for $200. I texted him a few weeks back (its been over a year since he listed them).....he scrapped it all.😌 LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 46 minutes ago, 67RModel said: I found an older posting on here from back in late 2021 a guy had everything for sale. Spokes, bearings, wheels with 315 tires mounted and all the wedges and lug nuts.....for $200. I texted him a few weeks back (its been over a year since he listed them).....he scrapped it all.😌 LOL. That's about the luck I have, too! Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 4 hours ago, doubleclutchinweasel said: You may have a point there. He might just have to swap the spiders. The hub and drum may not even need to come off. But, I do not know for sure. Hell, I'm just happy when somebody asks a question I know a little about! Most of the guys on here know so much that I feel too dumb to answer most of the questions! Sure do miss Glenn. He could have told exactly what was needed. to change over wheel size spiders :: drums/hubs / bearing etc still have to come apart. the spiders bolts go through drums/ hubs . little bit of work, at least shouldn't have to buy ALL new parts just seals and spiders. can't correctly answer question regards to floaters on front weight wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66dc75 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 My 67R600 had 22" rubber tube type. My tire guy got me 24.5 wheels no problem when I changed to tubeless. Might need different spacers in the rear though. On a side note if anyone close to Boston area needs 22s I have the old tires still mounted that are available cheap. Really nice steers rears 3 out of 4 very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
66dc75 Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Many mooms ago people used to get the spiders turned down to fit 20 inch rims om 24 and 22s Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swishy Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 When we converted 1000x20 to 11R22.5 we also ran tubed and tubless side by side in a dual set up with no worries the Diameter is the same and no worse than running different treads, wear, PSI etc the cost of tubleless is a lot cheaper than tubed + Tube + rust band cya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Swishy said: When we converted 1000x20 to 11R22.5 we also ran tubed and tubless side by side in a dual set up with no worries the Diameter is the same and no worse than running different treads, wear, PSI etc the cost of tubleless is a lot cheaper than tubed + Tube + rust band cya Yep. Had them side-by-side on mine for a while. It was almost like they MEANT for that to work, wasn't it? Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 side by side 20 vs 22.5 will work the only technical situation would be tire temps internally . heavy load / hot days/ long hauls . also depends on tire condition as to one set having more weight displacement vs temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 18, 2023 Author Share Posted April 18, 2023 So I guess to recap, weight ratings aside, since I have 11R24.5 tubeless tires and wheels on my front spokes I would need to seek out the smaller spokes that will fit my front axle spindle and bearing sizes. The smaller spokes meant for 22.5 tubeless wheels/tires. Basically what I am hearing is wheels for 24.5 tires cannot use the same spokes that wheels for 22.5 tires. Once I have those spokes installed its just a matter of getting 9.00x22.5 dayton wheels (rare) and some 315-80R-22.5 tires.......I guess I need to call or go see Barry at Watts to find out what part number a 22.5 spoke for my front axle would be. He helped a good friend of mine switch an 88 R model rear spokes to hub pilot a few moths ago. He was able to find all the seals, bearings, and hub part numbers in a few minutes and the parts were only a few days away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 18, 2023 Share Posted April 18, 2023 Wish I could read the numbers! Part numbers that were on my FA535 front axle. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenbjackson Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) You could try asking a trucker where local truck tire shops are, they may have some older mounting hardware laying around. That's how I found some old stud piloted disc wheels as well as some tube type and tubeless rims. He even had some split RIMS laying around. I have a truck with large spoke wheels and another with the smaller spoke wheels. There are two sizes! I couldn't read numbers. But I can clean them and try harder if you don't get any leads. Let me know. And I did go up a size on my standard steering gear to 315s and they handle and steer fine so far. As to wearing faster and tearing it up sooner idk 😐. Edited April 20, 2023 by glenbjackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 If you're not looking for more weight capacity (that the 315s have) Maybe you could just use a 12/24.5 ? It'd be a little bit bigger tire and you wouldn't need much other than to just change the tires. Not sure the availability of those as steers anymore either, but they did exist at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 18 hours ago, Mark T said: If you're not looking for more weight capacity (that the 315s have) Maybe you could just use a 12/24.5 ? It'd be a little bit bigger tire and you wouldn't need much other than to just change the tires. Not sure the availability of those as steers anymore either, but they did exist at one time. The actual objective here is just about entirely the cosmetics of a wider tire. Actually its a very stupid endeavor to pursue considering the initial cost of new/used 22.5 hubs, seals, possibly bearings, 9.00x22.5" dayton wheels (almost non existent), and new 315 22.5 tires. Plus the continued cost of replacing 315 tires vs 11R24.5 tires. If you look at the close up image of the front wheel area of my truck you can see it looks kind of silly since the wheels are set so far in (or the fender so far out). A 12R/24.5 is only 0.2" wider than an 11R24.5 but about 1.5" taller. A 315 is about 1.5" wider than an 11R24.5 tire. I'm guessing the rubber fender extensions create or compound the appearance problem. I considered taking them off but I don't think I have ever seen an RD without them. I should probably just forget about it and leave the money in my pocket....lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, 67RModel said: The actual objective here is just about entirely the cosmetics of a wider tire. Actually its a very stupid endeavor to pursue considering the initial cost of new/used 22.5 hubs, seals, possibly bearings, 9.00x22.5" dayton wheels (almost non existent), and new 315 22.5 tires. Plus the continued cost of replacing 315 tires vs 11R24.5 tires. If you look at the close up image of the front wheel area of my truck you can see it looks kind of silly since the wheels are set so far in (or the fender so far out). A 12R/24.5 is only 0.2" wider than an 11R24.5 but about 1.5" taller. A 315 is about 1.5" wider than an 11R24.5 tire. I'm guessing the rubber fender extensions create or compound the appearance problem. I considered taking them off but I don't think I have ever seen an RD without them. I should probably just forget about it and leave the money in my pocket....lol Maybe! But, then again... LOL! R models do look a little "narrow in the tire". Always have. The ones with wider fronts do fill up the fenders better. Purely an aesthetic thing, for sure. Just to keep you miserable, look for an Accuride 32052225 or equivalent. That's a 22.5" X 9.00" W/5.00" Offset "Heavy Load Application" demountable rim (code for "Dayton"). Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 21, 2023 Author Share Posted April 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, doubleclutchinweasel said: Just to keep you miserable, look for an Accuride 32052225 or equivalent. That's a 22.5" X 9.00" W/5.00" Offset "Heavy Load Application" demountable rim (code for "Dayton"). Already have. like everything they are an insane price now. Was hoping to find a set in a salvage yard if I do end up making the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 21, 2023 Share Posted April 21, 2023 Used to be common on packers, or DOT macks with a plow. Unless you find just the right stuff in somebody's way....not any cheap way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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