Wheel Seal Question

[fjh]

18 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Dunno about all of this is better than that type of deal

I feel more seals are damaged by people not keeping the hub square to the axle when sliding the hub back on than any wear and tare 

Or people not cleaning the hub out properly before driving the new seal home and seal not been able to sit square afterwards 

Both these types of seals work fine for many 100s of thousands of km if fitted properly and the breathers kept clean 

 

Paul

Yup I agree Paul Some what! That said ! if this are the case Its because you need the proper tools ! I the wear ring drivers are essential in my mind! How ever I still stand by my convictions and promote the other styles of seals Stemco does make the seals with the integral   Wiper ring I think they may work ok I haven't  enough experience  with them to give them the nod ! And yep the breathers There is usually a reason for a failure ! 

[Joey Mack]

Stemco Voyager series is decent..  one pc. style, rubberized O.D. easy to install when the correct driver is not available..  

[fjh]

On 5/7/2023 at 6:11 AM, Joey Mack said:

Stemco Voyager series is decent..  one pc. style, rubberized O.D. easy to install when the correct driver is not available..  

Yup buddy!  I like them but they a a quite recent interduction to the line! And can't comment on there longevity ! Experience ! I comment on the two piece from experience in my area of the country ! And a former believer! 

[Fastduramax]

 

Best luck with Voyager by far, clean the contact point on the spindle shiny nice with your Dremal and polishing wheel an NO SILICON... Inspect the bottom side of your spindle for wear you will feel a grove where the bearing wore in from being loose or seized, I replaced 3 seals before I discovered this in one of my 44 rears, had a new spindle pressed on to the tune of nearly $2k... I preload the shit out of my bearings now and never another problem !

[Full Floater]

I have been struggling to find Stemco 2 piece seals lately.  Found a set for the rear axle on the s/a R that im putting together, but nothing for the front.  So Voyager it is.  We'll see how it goes.   I don't know what's best these days but Im only familiar with the Stemco's on the old iron that I have.  If Voyagers last, well I guess that may be the ticket.  I assume they are easier and quicker to install, and they seem to be available 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Full Floater

[Joey Mack]

do you mean the steer axle???   What year model?  If it's the steer axle, there is a dowel pin hole in the spindle to secure the inner wear ring..  no biggie, just see if it's there.  jojo

[Full Floater]

1 hour ago, Joey Mack said:

do you mean the steer axle???   What year model?  If it's the steer axle, there is a dowel pin hole in the spindle to secure the inner wear ring..  no biggie, just see if it's there.  jojo

Yes I did mean the steer axle.  1975 R with 18.000lbs front.  I will have a close look for that dowel pin hole, thanks!   I just pulled the old wear ring off to get measurements and such to confirm the right new seal, will get back at it later today

[Joey Mack]

ok.. there wont be a dowel hole..  I have seen them on later models..  just do like your doin' take measurements.  do you have an ''Allied bearing co.'' near you..  If you have the old seal, there should be a part number on it..  Allied is pretty good at getting seals.  I just re-built a ''Roots'' blower, and they were able to get the seals I needed....

[Full Floater]

2 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

ok.. there wont be a dowel hole..  I have seen them on later models..  just do like your doin' take measurements.  do you have an ''Allied bearing co.'' near you..  If you have the old seal, there should be a part number on it..  Allied is pretty good at getting seals.  I just re-built a ''Roots'' blower, and they were able to get the seals I needed....

I wish I had an Allied Bearing Co, near me.   ....or anything good for that matter.    

[Joey Mack]

can you clean the old seal and post a picture of it and the seal number???  If I can get info I will post it for you..  Hell, i'll buy the seals and send them to you..  

[mechohaulic]

4 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

do you mean the steer axle???   What year model?  If it's the steer axle, there is a dowel pin hole in the spindle to secure the inner wear ring..  no biggie, just see if it's there.  jojo

challenge with the steer axle seal is the "wear ring with dowel pin" looks to be part of the spindle . there is also an  o-ring inside that wear ring. don't recall the need to change the o-ring,    old school seals are taxing the brain cells again;;isn't the steer axle seal a 20?? number series. can picture the seal not the number. 

[Full Floater]

3 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

can you clean the old seal and post a picture of it and the seal number???  If I can get info I will post it for you..  Hell, i'll buy the seals and send them to you..  

Yes, I'll take some pics.   The Stemco number is 320-2137, crosses to a Voyager 383-0164.   I did manage to find some early seals at Finditparts online and ordered them for on the shelf for later.  But the Voyagers are the only thing I can get here locally at any of the jobbers

[mechohaulic]

three points for the ole man!!!  I knew there was a 20 in that number 

[Full Floater]

5 hours ago, Full Floater said:

Yes, I'll take some pics.   The Stemco number is 320-2137, crosses to a Voyager 383-0164.   I did manage to find some early seals at Finditparts online and ordered them for on the shelf for later.  But the Voyagers are the only thing I can get here locally at any of the jobbers

Stemco 2 piece vs Voyager.  The voyager went in nice and smooth and seemed to fit well.   Running Lucas Hub oil.  Will see how it lasts.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Full Floater

[MACKS]

On 5/28/2023 at 9:51 AM, Fastduramax said:

 

Best luck with Voyager by far, clean the contact point on the spindle shiny nice with your Dremal and polishing wheel an NO SILICON... Inspect the bottom side of your spindle for wear you will feel a grove where the bearing wore in from being loose or seized, I replaced 3 seals before I discovered this in one of my 44 rears, had a new spindle pressed on to the tune of nearly $2k... I preload the shit out of my bearings now and never another problem !

Why not use a speedy sleeve,that’s what there for and u can use the same seal as without the sleeve.just asking..

[Full Floater]

7 hours ago, MACKS said:

Why not use a speedy sleeve,that’s what there for and u can use the same seal as without the sleeve.just asking..

Not a smaller ID seal needed when running a speedi sleeve?

[mrsmackpaul]

No, the same size seal works fine, have used many over the years and never had a issue

 

Paul 

[67RModel]

OK I see this thread got some others doing wheel seals involved. I finally got around to getting into mine this past weekend. I buffed and cleaned the spindle very thoroughly with fine steel wool and brake cleaner and found no burrs or scoring. I assume the wear ring is probably much softer than the heat treated axle spindle. I have to assume the grit guard seal was not installed properly with the correct tooling. I debated purchasing the stemco tools to do the job correctly as they were not too expensive but in the end I decided to just go with a Stemco Voyager one piece seal. I did buy the two 3/4" drive 8 point axle lock nut sockets so I could properly torque everything (3-3/4" inner and 3-1/4" outer). I had a 2 sided tool that had both sizes (on on each end) with holes going through perpendicular to insert a bar for leverage. It is adequate for tearing down but there is no way to use a torque wrench on it for proper reassembly. Everything was covered in oil from the leaking seal so I separated the hub from the drum and steam cleaned the hub, drum, and the wheel. Got a new set of brake shoes (Meritor 4515Q) and new 3/4" grade 8 bolts to put drum and hub back together. Everything went back together fine. I couldn't find any information on the axle bearing preload and assembly procedure so I just seated the bearings to 200 ft*lb while spinning the hub. Back inner lock nut off and retorqued to 50 ft*lb and then backed off 1/4 turn. Installed keyed lock ring and then put the outer lock nut on to 350 ft*lb. Put on a new Stemco hub cap and gasket and filled with full synthetic Mobil1 75w-90 gear oil. Hopefully this problem is taken care of. 

[Joey Mack]

The torque procedure you used is what I was taught a long time ago, on spoke wheel hubs.. jojo

[67RModel]

Also a tip for anyone doing this type of job in a more or less shadetree scenario. Get a 3/4" drive digital torque adapter from Harbor Freight. I debated laying down some serious coin for an average quality 3/4" torque wrench that would go to 350+ ft*lb then I found this handy device for $70. You can basically turn any breaker bar into a precision torque wrench. Everyone has a 1/2" breaker bar laying around. Just get this tool and a 1/2 to 3/4 adapter and you are good to go. I have a 3/4" breaker bar and a long piece of 1" EMT conduit slides nicely over the handle for extra leverage. I was a little reluctant but I found many positive reviews on it that were not on Harbor Freight's website. It's also made in Taiwan not China so the quality and precision is good. 

https://www.harborfreight.com/34-in-drive-150-750-ft-lb-digital-torque-adapter-58707.html

[67RModel]

And yes like everyone else has said. The Stemco Voyager seal goes in very easy with no special tools required. A block of framing lumber and a large ball peen hammer is all you really need. Of course you need to pay attention to what you are doing and tap it in with lots of care. I actually don't really know or recall what Voyager seal number mine crossed to but my original grit guard seal was 320-2110.......6" diameter.

[MACKS]

Sounds like your good to go,good job,personally I’ve never seen anyone or shop use a torque wrench on those big nuts and I’ve seen many adjust them totally wrong,saw one shop using a big air gun to wack the inner adjusting nuts on and then same on the outer or use a chisel and a big hammer on the outer,It really pays to do stuff yourself ..

[mrsmackpaul]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:49 PM, 67RModel said:

 I couldn't find any information on the axle bearing preload and assembly procedure so I just seated the bearings to 200 ft*lb while spinning the hub. Back inner lock nut off and retorqued to 50 ft*lb and then backed off 1/4 turn. Installed keyed lock ring and then put the outer lock nut on to 350 ft*lb. 

I have never known anything like this, I just do as my father taught me

Do them up tight, back off 1 1/2 flats on the nut

I wonder close what I was taught is to whats meant to be done 

On a six sided nut 1 1/2 flats is a 1/4 of a turn, but on 8 sided nuts my fathers plan falls apart a bit lol

And those other weird nuts sometimes found on drive axles leave dads plan in a shambles lol

But Dad was "just we're  1 1/2 flats are meant to be" or a bar and a bit of wood on the floor and rock the wheel while checking for movement, this also seams to work okay for me

Still I have now learnt the proper way today, thank you 

 

Paul

[Joey Mack]

If your wheels don't leak or fly off, I would say your way is just fine...  Just sayin,

[67RModel]

17 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Still I have now learnt the proper way today, thank you 

If you really want to get into the weeds with the "procedure" you can get get out your dial indicator when you are all done and check the end play of the hub center while spinning it and shaking it fore and aft. The acceptable tolerance I think is 1 - 5 thousandths of an inch end play 😂. But like other have said if your not blowing out seals regularly your wheels are not flying off.....your good. snug down on the bearing. Back off a little. and torque the snot (by hand) out of the outer lock nut.