Mark22300 Posted May 7, 2023 Share Posted May 7, 2023 Hey guys, I've owned this truck for roughly 6 months and its always had a bit of a miss at idle. well the other day it gave me a lightning bolt light and the blink sequence was 8-4 meaning a fault in injector #4. I am wounding if I'm going to need to replace just the injector or the Fuel Injection pump for that injector as well? how would I diagnose that? Also if anyone has and links to previous posts on injector replacements or any other tips and tricks toque specs would be very much appreciated. I am just getting my Excavation Company off the ground and going this summer and this is my main dump truck/work horse that drags my Hoe around so I need it back up and running asap. I don't believe there is any fuel mixing in the Engine oil Opinions? Any thing I am missing maybe? Is there any special tools I will need? I have replaced Injectors before but not in a heavy truck only in a 2006 24v cummins common rail 1 ton truck. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 7, 2023 Author Share Posted May 7, 2023 (edited) I did the oil test and I don't think I see any fuel in the oil. this pic was taken 12 mins after. I will probably send a oil sample away anyways just to be sure. oil was just changed 600ish km ago. Edited May 7, 2023 by Mark22300 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 Check the wires coming to EUP.. they tend to run against the engine and short out, and they can crack as well. Start there, and keep your wallet closed while we guide you.. If the wires look good, check the big plugs on the EECU for pin damage. If that is good, you can swap #4 EUP, with another, easy to get to, EUP, and see if the code follows the EUP.. if you do remove the #4 EUP. Pull the roller lifters out and inspect the roller, guide pin and cam lobe.... Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 2 hours ago, Joey Mack said: Check the wires coming to EUP.. they tend to run against the engine and short out, and they can crack as well. Start there, and keep your wallet closed while we guide you.. If the wires look good, check the big plugs on the EECU for pin damage. If that is good, you can swap #4 EUP, with another, easy to get to, EUP, and see if the code follows the EUP.. if you do remove the #4 EUP. Pull the roller lifters out and inspect the roller, guide pin and cam lobe.... Jojo And the spring! Thou usually a physical problem will not thru a code! The wiring is suspect as Joe states ! The Eup its self may be fault ! As a Note! if you do end up changing the Eup you should install the new Cal code eched into the new pump to optimize the run of the Engine! You may have to go to the dealer for this ! If they remember how to do it! This stuff is getting to be dinosaur like ! Just sayin! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 8, 2023 Share Posted May 8, 2023 Yep, Good luck getting someone to know what an EUP cal. Code is Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 13 hours ago, Joey Mack said: Check the wires coming to EUP.. they tend to run against the engine and short out, and they can crack as well. Start there, and keep your wallet closed while we guide you.. If the wires look good, check the big plugs on the EECU for pin damage. If that is good, you can swap #4 EUP, with another, easy to get to, EUP, and see if the code follows the EUP.. if you do remove the #4 EUP. Pull the roller lifters out and inspect the roller, guide pin and cam lobe.... Jojo I didn't think of checking wiring, I will defiantly start there! I guess the truck is 20 year old very possible the wiring is cracked, the truck has the classic leaky exhaust studs so maybe the connection's are dirty i will check it out tomorrow. thanks for the guidance i really hope i can keep my wallet closed on this one. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 9, 2023 Author Share Posted May 9, 2023 11 hours ago, fjh said: And the spring! Thou usually a physical problem will not thru a code! The wiring is suspect as Joe states ! The Eup its self may be fault ! As a Note! if you do end up changing the Eup you should install the new Cal code eched into the new pump to optimize the run of the Engine! You may have to go to the dealer for this ! If they remember how to do it! This stuff is getting to be dinosaur like ! Just sayin! I've seen other posts of the worst case scenario where the spring failed and wrecked the cam lobe, i hope its the wiring like jojo suggested. thanks for the reply's ill keep you guys updated and be sure to post the fix if I find it 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.E.D Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 (edited) If you do end up removing the eup, install new bolts and o rings ..the bolts tend to break.. specially if never been changed.As mentioned above , pull the eup roller and check the protrusion of the roller guide pin... attached is an image of the roller pin almost flush with the eup housing wall,it made the roller spin and trashed the cam .. this is my on my cousin's truck , it had a miss and blink code for the eup. Hopefully yours is not that bad. Just my two cents RED Edited May 11, 2023 by R.E.D 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 11, 2023 Share Posted May 11, 2023 R.E.D. your picture is a big help. I posted about that a few days ago. Now he can see what we are talking about.. jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 12, 2023 Author Share Posted May 12, 2023 (edited) I haven't had the chance to pull #4 out to inspect it but I did notice that it is the only one that has rusty terminal ends so fingers crossed that that's the cause of it. also instead of pulling #4 out would it be possible to pull the oil fill off the side of the block and put my inspection snake camera in to take a look at the cam lobe and roller? 1st is #4 2nd is #3 thats in like new condition 3rd photo is the oil fill right beside #4 Edited May 12, 2023 by Mark22300 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 12, 2023 Author Share Posted May 12, 2023 This is the alignment dowel correct? there is a allen head plug right beside it. any one know what service manual i need for this engine (2002 E7 460P)? id love to have some break downs and repair guides for it Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 12, 2023 Author Share Posted May 12, 2023 (edited) On 5/10/2023 at 7:25 PM, R.E.D said: If you do end up removing the eup, install new bolts and o rings ..the bolts tend to break.. specially if never been changed.As mentioned above , pull the eup roller and check the protrusion of the roller guide pin... attached is an image of the roller pin almost flush with the eup housing wall,it made the roller spin and trashed the cam .. this is my on my cousin's truck , it had a miss and blink code for the eup. Hopefully yours is not that bad. Just my two cents RED thanks for the image I really hope this isn't the case for my situation or i am completely F-ed as idk if id be able to afford the fix. Edited May 12, 2023 by Mark22300 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 12, 2023 Share Posted May 12, 2023 Yes to guide pin location.. the plug goes into the fuel gallery.. with a bore scope, you se the oil pump drive gear.. drop the oil pan and look up to get a good view of the cam. The oil pump is in the way of #3+#4.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 12, 2023 Share Posted May 12, 2023 Here is the supplement book for the E-7 E-Tech.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.E.D Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 20 hours ago, Mark22300 said: This is the alignment dowel correct? there is a allen head plug right beside it. any one know what service manual i need for this engine (2002 E7 460P)? id love to have some break downs and repair guides for it Go to the mack e media site..on the search box input the part number of the repair manual that Joey showed on his picture (5-106).it's gonna take you to another screen where it tells you that it's 30$...click on the part number again , which is underlined..then it will take you to another screen which lets you view the file for free.Download it to your phone or PC in PDF format.This works for many manuals .Look on eBay for the manual and once you find the part number go to mack e media and see if it can be downloaded for free.Cant beat free when starting out !😂 Red 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 Dammit R.E.D. You did it again.. !! Great info.. I got my books from Mack after I went to Mack schools.. I'm glad you posted the 'Free' option.. jojo 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.E.D Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Joey Mack said: Dammit R.E.D. You did it again.. !! Great info.. I got my books from Mack after I went to Mack schools.. I'm glad you posted the 'Free' option.. jojo I've gotten all of mine from eBay, I keep em in a several ring binders , which I can take to the yard and scroll through when my memory needs refreshing..the electronic copies of stuff I have ,I just print out the pages of what I will be working on that day. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 You sure can,,, and no need to charge a battery, or have Wi-Fi.... 🍻 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 13, 2023 Author Share Posted May 13, 2023 ok so i got the chance to clean up the connection's on #4s eup. As you can see they where pretty shitty and corroded. i hit them with a wire brush and brake cleaned them then reconnected and fired it up and i let it idle at 650rpm (low idle) for a good 15-20 mins and i didn't hear or feel the miss. i cranked it up to 1000rmp for another 10 mins and still nothing, idled just fine with no miss. Im really hoping that this was the problem. Im going to drop the oil and see if i can send my inspection camera into the drain hole to inspect the cam for damage as a precautionary measure, otherwise ill drop the pan as you advised. i also sent a oil sample away to check for metal shavings and it should be back early next week. ill update when i know more Thanks for the insight and help with my issue here guys i really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 13, 2023 Author Share Posted May 13, 2023 also i had a buddy whos better at computers then me find me the manual pdf online 👍 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Good call on cleaning the contacts.. as far as a scope in the oil drain plug.. that's a no-go.. oil pump pick up is in the way... Looks like you gotta remove the 30 nuts and bolts.. sorry.. however, this gives you a chance to look really good at the bottom end.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 well i got the oil sample back and there is no metal particulates or any sign of the cam/roller being damaged. code hasn't came back since i cleaned the connection's until this morning when i started it up it coughed a bit and started shitty then it threw the code at me again. shut it down and checked the blink code fired it back up and it was gone again. thinking its the eup itself that needs replacing Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 You can swap it with another EUP and see if the code follows it.. if not, check the injector.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 18 hours ago, Mark22300 said: well i got the oil sample back and there is no metal particulates or any sign of the cam/roller being damaged. code hasn't came back since i cleaned the connection's until this morning when i started it up it coughed a bit and started shitty then it threw the code at me again. shut it down and checked the blink code fired it back up and it was gone again. thinking its the eup itself that needs replacing I have a sugestion Maybe try runing some fuel conditioner like Howes or Standyne lubricity formula for a bit see if this changes your situation! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark22300 Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 7:15 AM, fjh said: I have a sugestion Maybe try runing some fuel conditioner like Howes or Standyne lubricity formula for a bit see if this changes your situation! what would that do? could it be a issue with the oil? i run shell rotella 15w-40 at the moment Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72834-2002-ch613-e7-460-injectors/#findComment-531767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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