Full Floater Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) Picked up a 76 600 western that runs and drives but the owner died a few years back, however; the foot valve is out of it, with a new Bendix E3 sitting on the floor to replace it with. Im wanting to install it on the spot so I can drive the truck home. I've always just placed the old lines on to the new foot valve as they came off the old valve, not really know which port is supposed to do what. Can't do that with this one as the old valve is gone. -Does the supply air for both front and rear service brakes come from the "delivery" or "supply" ports on the foot valve? -Also, which port is supposed to supply air to the foot valve itself? This should steer me in right enough direction to get me going without too much crossing lines. Edited June 6, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Does the new valve have markings at the ports? Del. Sup. S1. S2. Exh. Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 It actually doesn't, but I got a diagram on the www. Such as this one http://www.newtruckspring.com/wholesale/bendix-277863x-e-3-brake-valve/ Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 one other advantage of the days with copper lines; valve proper position , air lines if not bent would line up. port size would place them close also. plastic a different deal. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 58 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: one other advantage of the days with copper lines; valve proper position , air lines if not bent would line up. port size would place them close also. plastic a different deal. Definitely. I avoid plastic/nylon lines when I can and try to stick with fabric braided lines and JIC style fittings. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 I think figuring out which port is supposed to deliver air to the foot valve, would get me going as I would then be able to see which port exhausts air when the pedal is depressed for the front service brakes, as for the rear maxi's, I suppose there would also be air at that port for the foot valve to "release" to apply service brake to the rear Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 This is one of those times where I wish I studied the plumbing chart.. instead of just swapping the lines 1-by-1 and getting it right that way.. Bad Jojo!! Bad Jojo!! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 seems to me based on bad memory; top half of valve is supply section ; bottom would be delivery- rough configuration. when treadle is pushed center section opens allowing air to lower portion. which is why valve has exhaust port on bottom. course B's and early others didn't have 121 / computerized crap etc. that valve should have supply/ delivery stamped at each port . 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 7 hours ago, Joey Mack said: Does the new valve have markings at the ports? Del. Sup. S1. S2. Exh. Jojo it should unless that's another example of modern day cut backs. might be there just written in foreign language; or maybe no words just pictures for todays border crossers. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 7, 2023 Author Share Posted June 7, 2023 1 hour ago, mechohaulic said: it should unless that's another example of modern day cut backs. might be there just written in foreign language; or maybe no words just pictures for todays border crossers. Exactly. Prime example of cutbacks. Made in China for sure 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 9:54 PM, Full Floater said: Picked up a 76 600 western that runs and drives but the owner died a few years back, however; the foot valve is out of it, with a new Bendix E3 sitting on the floor to replace it with. Im wanting to install it on the spot so I can drive the truck home. I've always just placed the old lines on to the new foot valve as they came off the old valve, not really know which port is supposed to do what. Can't do that with this one as the old valve is gone. -Does the supply air for both front and rear service brakes come from the "delivery" or "supply" ports on the foot valve? -Also, which port is supposed to supply air to the foot valve itself? This should steer me in right enough direction to get me going without too much crossing lines. Here is the brochure on an E3 foot valve. I like the E3 better than the E2 because of the "2 stage" feel it delivers.E-3.pdfE-3.pdfE-3.pdf E-3.pdf 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Here are a couple of other treadle valve brochures. Treadle Valves.pdfTreadle Valve Numbers.pdf 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 Thanks. So all the delivery ports are the same, and all the supply ports are the same, correct? Just a matter of where the line and fitting fits best? 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Full Floater said: Thanks. So all the delivery ports are the same, and all the supply ports are the same, correct? Just a matter of where the line and fitting fits best? Pretty much. Just have to put the double check valve in the right sequence so the foot brake and trolley valve work properly. Edited June 8, 2023 by doubleclutchinweasel 1 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 8, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 8, 2023 Here is a generic plumbing diagram. 3 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 10:18 AM, Full Floater said: Thanks. So all the delivery ports are the same, and all the supply ports are the same, correct? Just a matter of where the line and fitting fits best? You ever get this sorted out? 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-532956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenbjackson Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) On 6/6/2023 at 5:42 PM, Full Floater said: I think figuring out which port is supposed to deliver air to the foot valve, would get me going as I would then be able to see which port exhausts air when the pedal is depressed for the front service brakes, as for the rear maxi's, I suppose there would also be air at that port for the foot valve to "release" to apply service brake to the rear im kinda confused on what you mean by " "release" to apply service brake to the rear" the foot valve is the treadle valve that applies air to both (but separated) front circuit and rear service brakes circuit. are you referring to air pressure to "relaese" spring/parking brake to be able to roll freely, drive and apply or use the service brakes??? thats the pop-in/out hand valve that releases the park(spring brake)... caging it. or do you mean release as in letting the spring relax to apply the brake???? that function is served by the inversion valve, only when you lose primary air(rear brakes circuit) the valve uses front, secondary air(front brake circuit) as a pilot signal to modulate "release" of air from the caged spring brake to apply brakes, allowing spring brake to act as service brakes. Edited June 18, 2023 by glenbjackson Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 6/14/2023 at 4:22 AM, doubleclutchinweasel said: You ever get this sorted out? I did, sorry for the lack of responses, been tied up with other clutch problems on a different truck. I got both the front service brakes and rear air supply to a relay valve plumbed into the delivery ports, which were on the bottom if I recall correctly. (Im not in front of it at the moment). there is a small line from the foot valve that is connected to the parking brake knob for some reason, that I plumbed into the foot valve wrong as the parking brake valve won't apply the maxi's now when pulled out. I think that line has to "dump" air somewhere and I have it plumbed into a supply port I think. Not sure on whats up with that but I got the service brakes to function so I could get that truck home. So for now, mission accomplished. Thank you 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Full Floater said: I did, sorry for the lack of responses, been tied up with other clutch problems on a different truck. I got both the front service brakes and rear air supply to a relay valve plumbed into the delivery ports, which were on the bottom if I recall correctly. (Im not in front of it at the moment). there is a small line from the foot valve that is connected to the parking brake knob for some reason, that I plumbed into the foot valve wrong as the parking brake valve won't apply the maxi's now when pulled out. I think that line has to "dump" air somewhere and I have it plumbed into a supply port I think. Not sure on whats up with that but I got the service brakes to function so I could get that truck home. So for now, mission accomplished. Thank you That small line may be the anti-compounding setup. If it is, it applies pressure to the release side of the parking brakes through the exhaust side of the parking brake valve whenever the foot brake is applied. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 another sign of a complicated world. anti-compounding /121 / dual air systems . lets not forget how the electronic "advances" changed mechanical world. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 4 hours ago, doubleclutchinweasel said: That small line may be the anti-compounding setup. If it is, it applies pressure to the release side of the parking brakes through the exhaust side of the parking brake valve whenever the foot brake is applied. Ooooohhhhh!!! Sounds like something I can do away with?!?!? In exchange for using common sense and not compounding the brakes! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533243 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 It’s actually a very simple system. Not absolutely necessary, of course. Yes, you can work around it. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Some systems used an actual anti-compounding valve. The porting between the service brakes and the exhaust side of the parking brake does the same thing with no extra parts. Pretty clever design. 2 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/72925-foot-valve-plumbing-questions/#findComment-533248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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