How to SAFELY disassemble Holland fifth wheel?

[Vladislav]

I was going to give a better life to a fifth wheel for my R-model. Such as revision of worn parts, sandblast, paint etc. Finally found a bit of time (and a guy who was eager to play the game), so pulled it off the weeds and pretty soon found myself  scratching my head. I sure understand everything could be taken apart over it but with presence of high stressed springs and very function of the jugs to lock something I felt worry to hit a hammer here and there. 

So there's quite easy (to my understanding) question: where to start the work from, which way to continue and what to avoid? 

Also I'd like to know the particular model of this wheel. Tried to identify by Google search but haven't had much luck soon enough. 

Thanks in advance. 

[Geoff Weeks]

Not much to hurt you taking one apart, no real stiff springs ready to jump out at you. That is/was a real common model, The name escapes me at present. X3500? Anyway, not saying you can't hurt yourself if you really tried, but the most likely way would be dropping it on your foot! Remove the bolts and pins, there are two big pins that pass though the casting. Pay attention to how it comes apart and put it back together the same way. Getting the bolts to come out is the hardest part of the job.

[Geoff Weeks]

I think I was mixing up Holland and Fontaine numbers, Looks like XA351 series

https://www.doverbrakeinc.com/downloads/catelogs/HOLLAND FIFTH WHEEL QUICK REFERENCE GUIDE.pdf

Whoop's didn't read far enough, Likely FW3500 So wasn't that far off

Edited June 29, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[Geoff Weeks]

Could be FW2000 or FW 3500, the differance is how the lock works, one has two halves that come together, with a H bar to hold them, the other has a casting the swings around the pin from one side only.

Looking with my reading glasses, I think it is an FW2000

Edited June 29, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[Geoff Weeks]

https://safholland.com/us/en/download-center/document/resource/environment/project1_p/documents/documentationP/Before%20Empolis%20Box%20update/pLiterature/XL-FW134-01_en-US.pdf

Rebuild manual right from SKF

[Joey Mack]

to me that 5th wheel looks good..  Yep, i would clean the top plate and look for cracks,, (non that i can see) and i dont see where the outer edges are worn out-rounded, like some brick hauler 5th wheels I have replaced, and so-on..  Like GW said, just keep track of the assembly .  is the pin yoke clean and smooth without a wear mark?  The trigger needs some love but, just based on these pictures, I believe, especially with your skill set, you will do a fine job..  I almost think the springs are the same ones in todays repair kit..   I like this posting..  I have re-built quite a few of these, mostly Fontains, and Jost, (kinda the same), but this Holland looks pretty easy to understand..  I expect that where the bolts go through, there is a bushing, to take the stress and wear..  Hell,,,,  You got this Vlad.. I expect the bolts to have SAE threads,,  1/2''x13 threads..  Jojo

[Vladislav]

Thanks the great Gentlemen!

Now I just need a bit of time to read the text in those manuals to be completely prepped for biting the bullet. Illustrations may work faster though. Hope to have the thing apart the other day.

Relating to the manuals my wheel looks as a kind of FW2000 but with two jaws and "C-pinion" at the cab side. Probably some modification or maybe a differently named model. But I hope general design is the same for many models. There may be an issue identifying replacement parts though but I use to double check suiteness by fitting sizes etc. 

I will post the results as soon as I have all the pieces blown separately. Even if I get being one legged by the plate fallen onto my foot  

[Geoff Weeks]

Vlad,

 My eyes aren't the greatest, but it looks like the FW2000 (which I remember being called the "Fleetmaster"" 5th wheel. The center plunger gets pushed forward by the pin entering the lock, the forward motion moves a piece via gear teeth that swings behind the pin, then a lock slide behind the swiveling piece to lock it in place. On that type there will be one big pin that the swinging part pivots on. You remove the cottter pin and the main pin comes out the top.

 Start by getting the bolts to loosen on the mechanism. That is going to be the hardest part, not to snap them off. There are two from the bottom, and the lock-stop adjusting screw from the side.

 No springs need to be caged, like on a brake can, all are easily and safely handled by hand.

[Vladislav]

Just now, Geoff Weeks said:

Vlad,

 My eyes aren't the greatest, but it looks like the FW2000 (which I remember being called the "Fleetmaster"" 5th wheel. The center plunger gets pushed forward by the pin entering the lock, the forward motion moves a piece via gear teeth that swings behind the pin, then a lock slide behind the swiveling piece to lock it in place. On that type there will be one big pin that the swinging part pivots on. You remove the cottter pin and the main pin comes out the top.

 Start by getting the bolts to loosen on the mechanism. That is going to be the hardest part, not to snap them off. There are two from the bottom, and the lock-stop adjusting screw from the side.

 No springs need to be caged, like on a brake can, all are easily and safely handled by hand.

Thanks for the step by step. The unit looks like FW2000 indeed. But the diagramms show the center plunger and ONE jaw, as you described. And as I remember I saw two side jaws in my wheel. I even started doubting on what I saw. But I belive I checked that out more than 2 or 3 times. Actually I have 3 such identical fifth wheels off 3 trucks. And going to revise at least 2 of them. And (again) as I recall all they had 2 side jaws. Ok, I'm going to put my hands on the 1st one in the nearest days. Just want to wait a dry time, it was raining really hard today.

[Geoff Weeks]

I am going off your picture you posted. There is a 2 jaw  types that looks similar,  It has 2 jaws and a H bar that drops down and prevents the jaws from opening is the FW3500. You can tell them apart the FW3500 has a rod that comes out the front of the 5th wheel with an adjusting nut and rubber washer on the outside end. The FW2000 has a rod and spring (like the 3500) but the end isn't threaded and is not used to adjust the lock.

 The other give away is the 3500 has two large pins that come out the top of the 5th wheel the 2000 just has one. I can only see one in the picture you posted.

[Geoff Weeks]

I'll see if I am any good at posting pictures.

 This is a FW2000 or Fleetmaster. I sold my trucks with FW3500 so don't have a picture to show.

 The tiny writing on the 1st pic says one pin (FW3500 would have an identical pin on the other side also), and on the 2nd pin not threaded, no nut.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Geoff, did I mention how glad I am that you’re here?

[Geoff Weeks]

Well, thankyou! Now that I am retired, I have a little more time, and I can put it to better use helping others (I hope anyway).

[Vladislav]

16 hours ago, Geoff Weeks said:

I am going off your picture you posted. There is a 2 jaw  types that looks similar,  It has 2 jaws and a H bar that drops down and prevents the jaws from opening is the FW3500. You can tell them apart the FW3500 has a rod that comes out the front of the 5th wheel with an adjusting nut and rubber washer on the outside end. The FW2000 has a rod and spring (like the 3500) but the end isn't threaded and is not used to adjust the lock.

 The other give away is the 3500 has two large pins that come out the top of the 5th wheel the 2000 just has one. I can only see one in the picture you posted.

Ok, the things seem you are closer to the truth than I am (and I expected such the way not opposite). Today I got myself looking for another "threasure in the weeds" which I also removed off a truck a few years back. I made pics but haven't pulled them from my phone. That 2nd unit looked the way you described FW3500 model. Two jaws with no central part at the rod side, two big pins with their ends seen left and right and that threaded rod with nut and washer and rubber bushing. The "recess pattern" style is a little bit different than the 1st unit has but overall looks very close. The one I posted the pic of above has one pin definitely not two and no threaded rod sticking out front. I walked by the place it was laying today to look for the jaw(s). But couldn't see two of them since it was positioned with its face up and I couldn't turn it over alone. All I saw on the diagrams you posted and read in the thread makes me thinking there must be one side jaw. But my memory still whisper of seeing two... So your mentioning of eyes in not the greatest condition may be reffered to more than one person.

Once again, many thanks for taking the time and pay attention to my needs.

I read that thread about JOT forum (and did that from the moment it was started). Hope the issue will be fixed one day or another. And sure glad to see and communicate with new to this forum truck enthusiasts.