Finally some DM progress

[Joey Mack]

Just for kicks,  I went to my F.M.C.S.R. book from 2018.  And to my surprise, it only says, no caps on bus steer axles. However, i was told that caps on any steer axle is illegal. Personally i wouldn't want caps on a steer axle, but its seems to be legal.  The tire section is a short one. Its on Page 351,,, section: 393.75... I cant post pictures... 

[Geoff Weeks]

It is very common misconception, and one reason I avoided running caps on steer, because the confusion extends to some DOT inspectors. I at one time, had a paper that addressed that for inspectors that I carried with the truck. Police can write a ticket for anything, that doesn't make it true or correct!

To be honest, I only had caps on the steer for one trip. The new steer tires didn't come in and I had to make a run. Took it from the midwest to the west coast and back with caps on the steer.  When I got back the new steer tire had come in the the caps were rotated to the drives.

 The caps in the above tread design came in two depths, one for trailer shallow, and one for all other positions. Mine were "deep" tread.

[mowerman]

15 hours ago, Joseph Cummings said:

I could declare my cat is a "certified welder" and it would be true

OK now that’s just wonderful Send that to Whoopie the drag queen. Yes, he also does painting and cleanup if you need a guy.

[mowerman]

14 hours ago, mattb73lt said:

The only vehicles that I know of that can't run caps on the steer axle are school busses. I only have hobby trucks, but I don't run caps on the steer axle, rear axle(s) ok but not up front. That's just me.

My wife suggested that for my DM just to save money and I said there’s no way I’m gonna chance  those things when I’m putting 4 billion hours of repair on that nose….. Joey are you probably heard the same story as me lots of years ago I heard that a few times but I think what we heard was nobody uses recaps on the front… bob 

[mowerman]

Also, I didn’t really notice this till I started pulling the wheels apart most of the rims on that truck. I’ve been replaced somewhere along the line so they’re not entirely as old as the truck is that makes me feel a little bit better as well as I’m not using them on the front Steer tires  . all eight drivers will have a split rims, but it’s nice to know they’re all a little bit newer than the truck is after I pick up my shit from that tire shop. After that I will only need four more tires. My two recaps also arrived yesterday they’re real nice tires they were one 10 piece too bad the shipping was 120 hopefully this tire shop can hook me up with the other four somewhere along the line now I’m really not in a hurry. I can just single out all four sides just to  drive  it legal.

[Geoff Weeks]

I went the other way and had a rim from 1947 on my '83 cabover for a while. If it was sound, I ran it.  I've seen some much newer rims I wouldn't touch.

Edited Saturday at 02:44 PM by Geoff Weeks
would-wouldn't

[mowerman]

That’s really weird strange things happen sometimes I was just thinking about us old story the other day I would completely forgot about when we were talking about rims. I had a 55 Chevy Bel Air years ago. I actually had more than one, but I was working on one getting it all cleaned up. I found this original style rim laying on the ground and a junkyard. I paid for it and took it home sand blasted it painted it put a brand new tire on it. Wouldn’t you know that some bitch wobble down the road? I pulled it all apart through the rim out.

[mowerman]

Rim  was warped. I didn’t even notice that until I got it ready to use.

[Joseph Cummings]

5 hours ago, tjc transport said:

it is against the law to run recaps on the steer axle in New Jersey.

i know a guy that had his truck red stickered and impounded  during a roadside inspection in the scalehouse two years ago because of recaps on steer axle. the truck was not allowed to leave the impound yard until the front tires were changed.

and he got a heavy fine for it too. i think the fine was $2,000. plus tow and storage. it ended up costing him close to $5,000 for not listening to us about the caps on steer axle. 

and it is s violation of most insurance companies rules too. 

which means if you run recaps on the steer ale and have a accident, they can deny all claims. 

The only thing I can find in NJ law prohibiting recaps is this. I think some cop did your friend wrong

 

Section 13:20-50A.25 - Tires and rims (a) Tires and rims of proper size and tires with a load-rating commensurate with the chassis manufacturer's GVWR shall be provided. (b) Tubeless tires mounted on one-piece drop center rims may be used. (c) All tires shall be of the same size, type, construction, and load-rating. The load-rating shall meet or exceed the GVWR, as required by FMVSS No. 120 (49 CFR § 571.120), incorporated herein by reference, as amended and supplemented. Tires on Type B, C, and D school buses may be of more than one type of construction provided all tires on the same axle are the same type of construction. (d) A school bus may be equipped with a spare tire and rim assembly of the same size as those mounted on the school bus. A spare tire shall not be stored inside the passenger compartment of the school bus. (e) A school bus may be equipped with a spare tire carrier properly mounted under the floor in an area accessible to the driver. (f) The tire tread depth shall at no time be less than 4/32 of an inch on the front tires and 2/32 of an inch on the rear tires as measured on two adjacent treads by a Dill gauge or its equivalent. (g) Regrooved or recapped tires shall not be used on the front axle of a school bus. (h) Dual rear tires shall be provided on Type B, C, and D school buses. (i) Tire chains, snow tires, all-weather tires, or tires marked with "M & S" shall be used for the drive wheels to enhance the safe operation of the school bus during adverse weather conditions. The "M & S" marking is not necessary if a rear tire has a retread that is a snow/mud-type tread and meets the minimum tire tread depth standards of (f) above. (j) Spacers shall be as specified by the manufacturer and shall not be altered.

N.J. Admin. Code § 13:20-50A.25

And here

N.J. Admin. Code § 16:53-3.25 - Tires and wheels

• State Regulations
• Compare

(a) An autobus shall be equipped with tires and wheels of sufficient size and construction, as recommended by the manufacturer to meet the GVWR of the autobus.

(b) An autobus shall not be operated with regrooved, retread, or recapped tires on the front wheels. An autobus shall not be operated on any tire having exposed fabric on the tread or sidewall.

(c) An autobus shall not be operated unless the front tires have a tread groove of at least 4/32 of an inch when measured in a major tread groove.

(d) An autobus shall not be operated unless the rear tires have a tread groove of at least 2/32 of an inch when measured in a major tread groove.

(e) An autobus shall be equipped with tires that are matched in size designation, construction, and profile on the same axle. Radial tires shall not be mixed with other types of tires on the same axle.

(f) All autobuses shall meet the requirements set forth in 49 CFR § 393.75, incorporated herein by reference, as amended and supplemented.

[tjc transport]

i respect what DOT troopers say more than anything the internet says. 

[Geoff Weeks]

In this case the internet is quoting the regs, both federal and state. So far you have not provided anything that shows they were cited for "caps on a steer", just hearsay that it happened.

You can look up the CFR and the NJ code for yourself. In both cases the exact regulation has been provided.

[tjc transport]

16 hours ago, Geoff Weeks said:

In this case the internet is quoting the regs, both federal and state. So far you have not provided anything that shows they were cited for "caps on a steer", just hearsay that it happened.

You can look up the CFR and the NJ code for yourself. In both cases the exact regulation has been provided.

not hearsay. 

i took him to the impound yard and helped change the steer tires with now ones and sat there until the DOT troopers cleared truck to leave. 

i do not know what regulation he was written up for, but it was for the recaps on the steer axle. that is all the repairs we made to get truck released from impound. 

[mowerman]

Ha ha well I guess that says it all personally I have never heard of anybody putting recaps in front. That’s all I know about it. I could not argue . Bob

[Geoff Weeks]

I've been cited for expired "permanent" plates, I have been written up for "loose"input on a power divider (while stationary the spec is .065", drive torque forces it out against the taper bearing when running). 

You can't control what some officer "thinks", all you can do is be on the right side of the statute and bring it before a judge.

 An officer can and will think what they want, and you can't control when they are wrong. That is why judges exist, An officer is not a judge.

As I mentioned, I didn't normally run caps on the steer for exactly the reason as there are plenty of people with a gun and a badge that don't know the rules either. However I was fully prepared to back up my actions with the statutes if needed.

I've had to "educate" a few young inspectors about auto slacks not being required before a set date before.

P.S., my "education" often starts by "could you print off the regulation so I can be sure I'm doing it right" If he doesn't see he got it wrong, I say "I don't see where I am on the wrong side of this..." Most, but not all, will see they were wrong and make a correction.

The above with the expired non-expiring plate took posting a bond and taking it to court where it was thrown out and my money refunded.

Edited yesterday at 03:26 PM by Geoff Weeks

[Joseph Cummings]

55 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

I've been cited for expired "permanent" plates

I had that problem here in Pa in the 80's. I had a rail trailer from some far away state I think it might have been Arkansas and the registration document was kind of unusual looking but it had PERMANANT stamped on it in big letters. Actually it was the first time I had seen a permanent trailer tag so I examined the documentation really closely. And go figure I got pulled into a DOT check. And they were insisting it was all wrong. It was a damn railroad owned brand new dry van. It seemed like they were reading it wrong. They were going to cite me, but then an older officer came over and looked at it and decided it was OK. I don't understand why they just didn't run it

[mowerman]

i used to deliver those things around LA we called them piggyback trailers or pigs for short first trucking job there,,,if they didnt have california tags,,,the railroad would issue us a 3 day permit for them as well as the containers,,,it was a real fun job,,,,but the money wasnt very good it was so long ago i almost forgot about it,,,,,bob