Lateral play in steer tires.

[h67st]

10 hours ago, skydawg said:

So AFTER I bought the 301SQ32B kingpins,I looked at the build sheet for my truck and the part# is 301SQA32C...did I just waste $300? I did have my brother help w/ the problem ID,and he said the kingpins are loose,also driver side tie rod end and drag link have too much play,He`s an excellent auto mechanic but not equipped or experienced w/ big trucks.He thought it looks like the drag link play might be taken up with a screw on the end.

If the ball on the drag link isn't worn too much you can tighten it up. Remove the cotter pin, tighten the screw plug all the way down, then back off to the first cotter pin hole. Hopefully your coil spring behind the ball isn't broken.

[skydawg]

Ok,I`ll try that,thanks.Leaving tomorrow for Vermont,be back Thursday.

[skydawg]

I got the kingpins and bushings,the pins are tapered but the bushings and their respective locations on the pins are not tapered.So these won`t require a tapered reamer.Does this sound like the correct parts for a FA 505 axle/knuckle? I`d hate to have a shop disassemble only to find that I gave them the wrong parts(nos Mack 301SQ32B).It would mean leaving the truck outside at the shop in a not-so-great area until I came up with correct parts,or putting it back together w/ the old pins...at $110/hr.

[Joey Mack]

The pins are tapered where they go into the axle beam..  both ends are straight..  the taper is designed so that the pin will not move upward with a load on them, and the thrust bearing takes the load of the front end weight.  I wish you were doing the repair..  You would see what we are talking about.. Not being there is also an issue for me, and I am sure, for a few others on this thread...  Jojo

[terry]

I'd take doing that mack tapered pin over a straight rockwell axle anytime!    terry

[Geoff Weeks]

The British buses had taper pins also, they took a large Kin Pin press to get them out, sometime with heat to the knuckle. Look out when they finely release! Shot one down into a brick floor and punched the brick down a bit! Sounded like a rifle shot.

[mrsmackpaul]

Very true Geoff, they go off like a rocket, or at least that has been my experience 

I have a US Timken front axle from the 1940s in a old truck of mine, they just tap out super smooth 

Thinking we might of gone a little backwards since then

 

Paul

 

[Freightrain]

My FA 517 was tapered pin.  I had it apart faster then it took to jack the truck up.  I was amazed.  I've done my twin I beam trucks that took days to get the pins out!!  Being tapered it took one smack with a 5# hammer and they dropped out.  One bushing was roller, can't recall if I had to resize the other end?  It was 21 yrs ago.  That was my first big job on the truck after I bought it.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

1 hour ago, Freightrain said:

My FA 517 was tapered pin.  I had it apart faster then it took to jack the truck up.  I was amazed.  I've done my twin I beam trucks that took days to get the pins out!!  Being tapered it took one smack with a 5# hammer and they dropped out.  One bushing was roller, can't recall if I had to resize the other end?  It was 21 yrs ago.  That was my first big job on the truck after I bought it.

That's a lot like the one I did on mine.  Seems like a needle bearing on one end and a Teflon-lined sleeve on the other end.  Needed no reaming or fitting.  Just bolted together.  Only issue I had was that the screws holding the cap on top of the knuckle had to be drilled out and the holes cleaned up.  I replaced the Phillips head screws with socket head cap screws.  No interference anywhere and a whole lot easier for the next guy to get out.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Here is a great picture of how the components stack up.  I hope this will help explain how the tapered pins work.  Like the man said above, the tapered part seats in the axle beam.  The bearings/bushings go into the knuckle.  And the thrust bearing is adjusted into place with the big nut on the bottom.

Edited August 29, 2023 by doubleclutchinweasel

[doubleclutchinweasel]

You know, I may have a good picture of that in my service manual.  If I can remember to do it, I will look at it tonight.  Seems like it had good instructions, too.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Here are pictures of “Type 3” knuckles, which I THINK is correct for a FA505. One has a needle bearing and the other doesn’t.  I am also attaching a picture of a “Type 2”, which uses a different thrust bearing setup. 
I hope this helps. 
 

[skydawg]

Great pics,DCW,thankyou.I believe my truck has the Type 3,Figure9-9 setup.So the taper of the pin in the axle bears the weight,and the adjusting nut on the bottom moves the knuckle up or down slightly to maintain clearance w/ the axle? 

[doubleclutchinweasel]

9 hours ago, skydawg said:

Great pics,DCW,thankyou.I believe my truck has the Type 3,Figure9-9 setup.So the taper of the pin in the axle bears the weight,and the adjusting nut on the bottom moves the knuckle up or down slightly to maintain clearance w/ the axle? 

Exactly.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Oh, and if the bushings are a thin steel sleeve with a coating inside them, there should be no reaming.  If they are solid brass/bronze, they may have to be line-reamed once in place.

Do you have pictures of your kit?  The guys on here might be able to tell you more about that if they could see exactly what you have.  Also, if the bushings are a tight fit or a no-go on the pins already, then reaming will be a must.  But, if they have noticeable clearance on the pins in the free state, it may not be necessary after installation.

Keep us informed.

[mechohaulic]

one method of bronze bushing installation without hammer pounding which could lead to bushing damage is to use a large C-clamp and two steel pieces. clean/lube all parts , use C=clamp as a "press" .provides steady equal pressure to bushing and keep bushing lubed  as clamp presses it in .  have done the large socket method and hammer also. 

[mechohaulic]

not sure if newer bushings  have an outer groove for grease or just the one hole. only one hole ,make sure bushing install has the bushing grease hole  lining up with the spindle grease fitting location when finally in place. improper line up grease won't reach intended area 

[skydawg]

Here are my parts,the bushings are steel and are split,not a continuous circle.

[skydawg]

The bushings have 2 holes,180deg apart.These are nos Mack parts,#301SQ32B.

[doubleclutchinweasel]

I'll bet those can just be pressed in place.  Should have some clearance if placed on the pins on the bench.

Just be sure to line up the holes with the grease supply ports so you can grease them.

I think you have the "no ream" types there, from the pictures and your description.

[Joey Mack]

No reaming. And no de- burring if you install them smoothly. The holes line up with the grease zerks.  I have a homemade press made out of a cutoff brake chamber rod, and 2 large flat washers and 2 nuts to install the bushings flush , and then flip a big socket over and use it to recess the bushings for the grease seals..  I'm sure there is a dozen ways to do it.. you will laugh when your done, because you will see how easy it is to do.  jojo

[doubleclutchinweasel]

Amen, JoJo!  Easier than most pickup trucks!

[Joey Mack]

You know what we havent talked about???????????? Removing the old bushings.....  clean the grease out really good.  then take a pocket screwdriver or a pick and poke around the edge of the bushing to find the seam..  (if it is not an older brass bushing), and that is where you can curl the old bushing out with a screwdriver or small sharp chisel..  if you have the brass bushing, you can try to knock it out with a small chisel,  when you get it apart you will know better, of course,  the bushings may be worn so thin that you can pry them out with a screwdriver..  dont sweat it..  Jojo

[skydawg]

I didn`t gat any grease seals in the kit.I don`t see any in the Figure 9-9 pic that DCW posted.Can I re-use the old ones if I have them? If I spread the bushing seams by hand,they fit over the pins,but I`d think they would need reaming when installed in the knuckle,since they`re a no go over the pins when the seam is tight.

[mechohaulic]

to remove the old bushings (thick wall)  I've taken a socket tad smaller then spindle hole. put socket against the bushing backward meaning the socket is basically upside down against bushing 1/2 in drive extension through spindle goes into socket and tap / hammer out old bushing. it's the Polish// frugal way of having a bushing remover= installer.

looking at the bushing pictures  even having 2 grease holes ;are the holes off center top to bottom ??  install upside down will the holes be off from lining up to zerk hole ?  possibly just the photo makes off set appearance. been a while for me doing bushings.