Finding TDC

[Licensed to kill]

On a CAT, there is a locater pin in the flywheel to locate TDC. Is there anything like that on a 2V E-6, 350?. Need to find TDC WITHOUT referring to the balancer and am not keen on pulling the valve covers to go by the valves positions. So, without useing the balancer for reference, how do I find TDC on this engine??. 

[Joey Mack]

Buddy...   if you pull the front valve cover, and the #1 injector, you can indicate TDC on #1 with clean rod in the injector bore set on top of the piston, then roll the engine clockwise til the rod stops rising. then you will be at TDC. if you go passed it to get the feel for it, just reverse and turn the engine at least 30 degrees to take out the gear lash, and start over.. once you are happy with that, look at the #2 exhaust rocker arm, it should be ''Rocked''  pushing the valve open..  if it is not and both rockers on #2 are even and have lash, then you are on #6, and need to roll the engine clockwise 360 and do it again..  once done you can make any needed mark on the balancer for later use.. 

P.S.  I have been wondering how your ''Wing'' has healed up? Jojo

[Licensed to kill]

Was hoping there was something like on the CAT's So I didn't need to pull the covers. If I had thought of this sooner (I almost NEVER think of these things when it is easy to do) I would have done this before putting the balancer from the 673 on but I guess I secretly like to do things the hard way. The hand is "healed" but t2he nerve is still on the fritz. Little finger feels like a log, always in the way and doesn't do anything useful. At least when I injure is it doesn't hurt but it is a PITA. I have a habit of dropping things, tools and parts and such but now it is worse....MUCH worse. A LOT of colourful language in the ship these days, more than usual. 

Edited September 7, 2023 by Licensed to kill

[mechohaulic]

was wondering why couldn't use balancer. since heart surgery in '15  the two fingers on left hand haven't worked . worse then pins and needles feel. and I'm left-handed ; it's a bit--h when I drop something and can't bend down enough to pick it up. saw a penny on the ground last week = I kicked it across the parking lot till I found something to lean against to pick it up. 

[Licensed to kill]

46 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

was wondering why couldn't use balancer.

To recap from before I slashed my wrist, I put an E-6 in my B-61 and found that the cab would not go far enough forward to install the cab mount bolts without hitting the engine. I enquired here and was told that I needed to use the balancer and water pump off the 673 as the shafts are shorter (DOH!). So, now that I am somewhat "healed" I am back to the B-61 project and job one has been to change out those items and move the engine/trans forward. The balancer from the 673 has no timing mark but the balancer from the E-6 does, In fact, I used them to set the valves when I got the engine. Actually, all I needed was the HUB from the 673 as it is shorter. Soooooo, I thought I would put the damper from the E-6 on the hub from the 673 so I would retain the timing marks for future reference. However, to do so, I would need to find TDC so I could orient the damper properly. In Mack's infinite wisdom, the bolt pattern to bolt the damper to the hub is symmetrical so it can go on in 6 different positions (six bolt pattern). If I had thought of this prior to Putting the damper on the crank, I could have used the location of the keyway to orient it. Don't really want to pull the damper back off the crank (PITA). On thinking about the 673 damper (Since these engines are internally balanced IMO the proper term for what I am talking about is a "damper, not a "balancer") not having any timing marks, It occurred to me that this may be due to when nestled in a B model chassis, any timing marks probably can't be seen anyways so any timing done would not use the damper anyways. Don't REALLY want to reopen valve covers and pull an injector for something that I no longer think is likely to be helpful ANYWAYS, I guess I will just use the blank damper from the 673. If my thinking is wrong on ANY points here, somebody PLEASE set me straight. BTW, since the engine is internally balanced AND the damper CAN be put on the hub in any of six different positions, I am assuming that it matters not what position on the hub the damper is bolted. 

[Licensed to kill]

1 hour ago, mechohaulic said:

since heart surgery in '15  the two fingers on left hand haven't worked . worse then pins and needles feel. and I'm left-handed ; it's a bit--h when I drop something and can't bend down enough to pick it up. saw a penny on the ground last week = I kicked it across the parking lot till I found something to lean against to pick it up. 

That sucks. At least for me, I am right handed. I honestly don't know WHAT I would do if this was my right hand that is F@$ked up. Bad enough being my "off" hand. 

[Joey Mack]

Im sorry that I don't know if another way.  I figured you knew how to do what I posted.  If I find another way this weekend I will post it.  I happen to have a 2 valve and an E-Tech in my shop..

[mrsmackpaul]

Can you pull the small cover of the timing cover and look at the injector pump 

Or pull the line off number one injector and check the timing that way

Paul 

 

[mechohaulic]

11 hours ago, Licensed to kill said:

To recap from before I slashed my wrist, I put an E-6 in my B-61 and found that the cab would not go far enough forward to install the cab mount bolts without hitting the engine. I enquired here and was told that I needed to use the balancer and water pump off the 673 as the shafts are shorter (DOH!). So, now that I am somewhat "healed" I am back to the B-61 project and job one has been to change out those items and move the engine/trans forward. The balancer from the 673 has no timing mark but the balancer from the E-6 does, In fact, I used them to set the valves when I got the engine. Actually, all I needed was the HUB from the 673 as it is shorter. Soooooo, I thought I would put the damper from the E-6 on the hub from the 673 so I would retain the timing marks for future reference. However, to do so, I would need to find TDC so I could orient the damper properly. In Mack's infinite wisdom, the bolt pattern to bolt the damper to the hub is symmetrical so it can go on in 6 different positions (six bolt pattern). If I had thought of this prior to Putting the damper on the crank, I could have used the location of the keyway to orient it. Don't really want to pull the damper back off the crank (PITA). On thinking about the 673 damper (Since these engines are internally balanced IMO the proper term for what I am talking about is a "damper, not a "balancer") not having any timing marks, It occurred to me that this may be due to when nestled in a B model chassis, any timing marks probably can't be seen anyways so any timing done would not use the damper anyways. Don't REALLY want to reopen valve covers and pull an injector for something that I no longer think is likely to be helpful ANYWAYS, I guess I will just use the blank damper from the 673. If my thinking is wrong on ANY points here, somebody PLEASE set me straight. BTW, since the engine is internally balanced AND the damper CAN be put on the hub in any of six different positions, I am assuming that it matters not what position on the hub the damper is bolted. 

the front damper is actually a balancer . internal "fluid"  by engineering thinking helps balance rotating parts.  6 hole no off set due to the timing marks were on flywheel which had only one bolt pattern that lined up and a dowel pin ,  based on the knuckles that are thinned out from  spinning fan , I would much rather check timing with old method of using fly wheel markings. yrs back I got into practice of painting every other blade white or yellow on black fans made it much easier to see spinning blades.

[fjh]

The only method I can think of is to pull number one injector and use a rod down the hole as mentioned by Joey I totally get not pulling the Valve cover specially if you got no leaks they can be a real bitch at times to reseal! I also can identify with it being in a B model  not the nicest thing to work on!

[Licensed to kill]

59 minutes ago, fjh said:

 I also can identify with it being in a B model  not the nicest thing to work on!

That is why I am doing everything I can now while the cab/clip are not on the chassis. Once this thing gets put together the only reason I want to open the hood is to show off my fancy-schmancy motor and to check/change the oil. Which brings me to another situation. The water pump that I pulled off of the 673 LOOKED rough but spun freely. Not wanting to experience a leak or bearing failure after the truck is assembled I decided to pull the pump apart and do bearings and seal. The bearings and seal look perfect and I am not sure where to find replacements so looks like I will just be cleaning and repacking the bearings and reassembling with the parts that it had. 

[Freightrain]

I played heck setting my jakes up with no marks on balancer.  Used flywheel mark and the just eyed the rest up using sharpie marks on balancer after using a protractor to get the degrees close.  Musta done it okay, she still runs good and jakes work well.

 

I rocked engine back and forth like doing my race motor valves.  Just a bit more clumsy crawling over the fender to check valves and then crawling under truck to turn crank.  Ugh.

[Licensed to kill]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:48 PM, Licensed to kill said:

 In Mack's infinite wisdom, the bolt pattern to bolt the damper to the hub is symmetrical so it can go on in 6 different positions (six bolt pattern).

Update. It would appear that I owe "Mack" an apology for the above quote. The bolt pattern is NOT symmetrical. I assumed it was because when I went to install the pulley and damper, they both went right on first try. As it turns out, there IS only one way that they fit (as it should be IMO). What are the odds that I would put the pulley on, then the damper on and hit the proper orientation first try with both??. Anyways, with this new revelation, I just put the damper that came with the E-6 on but, before hand, I powder coated the pointer silver and filled the timing marks and valve setting marks AND the part number (for no particular reason) with white paint so they are readily seen should I ever need them. 

[Joey Mack]

Thats what I'm talkin; bout..  Glad you found it out..  Jojo

[mechohaulic]

memory serves correctly  when timing was done by flywheel timing  it was for injection pump timing / valves. front damper didn't have marks =no need for off set bolt pattern ( or i never paid attention),  then more attention was put to not smashing a finger or two putting damper on. timing went to front damper then bolt pattern offset. 

[JoeH]

Pull the Tappet cover off the side of the block. When the 2 forward most pushrods are "relaxed" then you're on #1 TDC starting combustion stroke.

[JoeH]

Just finished reading, looks like you don't need to do anything.