E6-285 2VH problems and solutions

[allfritz123]

I know one thing that if I could make it work, I would have to find a "shorter radiator".!   As in the picture posted from JoeH of his '79, I have the exact same radiator with the huge tank at the top which is too wide to entertain my piping configuration for the air intercooler I have.  If I could shorten the radiator by removing the tank altogether, I maybe would have room for the piping on the top.  Certainly my radiator does not have provision for an intercooler to bolt to it.   It had louvres on it which could be discarded and that would make it a little thinner.   My biggest concern is to make it all fit under the hood!  

Added:  Would my hood be the same as a '78 and allow the same setup of the CAC to tuck inside. IT would be great if it would and I could go that route. I would buy another radiator as it is a better system.

Edited December 18, 2023 by allfritz123
Added comment at end!

[mrsmackpaul]

Australian R models had different bonnets (hoods) for chassis mounted intercooler 

And different bonnets for trucks before tip turbine 

Not overly noticeable but are different 

 

Paul 

[JoeH]

For easiest conversion I imagine you'd need the radiator/CAC from a later R model. E6, mid-late 1980's I would think could work. There will be some minor differences on hood hinge brackets, unsure if this would affect the radiator/hood alignment at all.  These spring-type hood hinges combine with rollers on the cab/hood mating brackets to allow the cabs to have air ride rear cab mounts. The radiators then use a diagonal brace from mid radiator level back to the frame around the upper shock absorber bracket. The cab air ride wouldn't work with the old style rod braces that stabilize the radiator off the cab's firewall.

[Macktruckman]

Ok allfritz123, I apologize for the delay I’m going to try to put a few pictures up. 

[Macktruckman]

[Macktruckman]

You can see in the pictures especially from top looking down that I cut the piping inlet and outlet off and flipped them over and welded them back to clear the radiator tank

[Macktruckman]

[Macktruckman]

I built my own air ride cab kit and made some rod brackets to go from the radiator to the shock brackets and removed the factory x bracing. Stole the hood Pads and roller brackets off the 88 cab that I took the cac out of as well. 
originally mine had the water and air combo engine mounted cooler like I saw above. I used the front half of a intake manifold from a cac truck, I bought the manifold half off eBay. Didn’t have to mess with the rear manifold half. 
josh

[JoeH]

I think the factory cab air ride should mate right up from late model R model, you just need to find a junkyard with the donor parts.  We scavenged the parts off a 2001 RD to make our 1988 RD an air ride cab. Everything bolted right in, including the brackets inside the frame for the shock absorbers. We also needed the exhaust L stand that also serves as the frame the cab mounts bolt to.

[allfritz123]

On 12/19/2023 at 1:06 PM, Macktruckman said:

I built my own air ride cab kit and made some rod brackets to go from the radiator to the shock brackets and removed the factory x bracing. Stole the hood Pads and roller brackets off the 88 cab that I took the cac out of as well. 
originally mine had the water and air combo engine mounted cooler like I saw above. I used the front half of a intake manifold from a cac truck, I bought the manifold half off eBay. Didn’t have to mess with the rear manifold half. 
josh

Thank you for the nice pictures!  Beautiful.   As you said, we have the same radiator with the big tank on the top as I see the old brace bracket in your pictures like I have on my tank.  Your hood also attaches via what I call an eyebolt system at the bottom where it hinges. You have 2 flat washers on it.  Mine is the same arrangement!    I am trying to locate a suitable CAC.  You swapped tank external ports so that you gained additional width to go around the big top tank from what I understand.

I am looking into finding a similar CAC.  You said your donor truck was a 1988.  I can find a CAC from a 1988 on the website below. It looks to have 2 rectangular inlets which looks like a match to yours.  It looks like a 2.25 inch core width.  I assume you had louvres originally on your original 1978 radiator like our does.   At any rate, it can be discarded!

https://truckpartsinventory.com/part-details/84693932/new-1988-mack-rdmodel-charge-air-cooler-for-sale

Another options I saw but don't know if overall width is wide enough to go beside the old tank?   It may have straight out piping which requires no welding? Mounts are different as they use 4 horizontals and maybe it too narrow!

https://radiatorpros.com/hd-charge-air-cooler/mack-charge-air-cooler/1983-1991-r-u-models.html

My 1985 donor truck engine had a wider core width CAC than 2.25 inch and it feeds the air over the top. It also has the inlet to the manifold at the front of the motor.  No way I can make it work.  It looks like you were able to find one where it had the inlet further back on ebay.  I will search for one like that as it likely makes the piping easier to assemble. I do have the piping from the 1985 and aluminum pieces that made it fit on its original application but it has its horns much narrower and likely designed for a radiator with no large cast top tank.  I think my donor engine came from a Cabover (long dipstick and oil filler spout).  It also had a very large oil pan on it.  Its a 51 quart!

 

 

 

[Macktruckman]

Yes mine had the louver looking grill and it was falling apart anyway. Either way there’s not room for it after the cac is installed. That first one you sent at 4 states looks like mine. 1988 is what my doner truck is. The truck I’m using is a 1978. Mine also has the big pan and 3 oil filters. We have the  ESI package. Extended service interval. Might note my radiator had some threaded holes on the sides that I was able to utilize for some simple angle iron brackets for the cac and radiator support rods. Hopefully yours does too. It really was pretty straight foward. May have to cut and swap the inlet/outlet and weld them back but it was really close. I just couldn’t quite make mine go without doing it. Even that wasn’t difficult. 
josh

[Macktruckman]

I just checked. Mine actually is a 58 qt. Lol. 14.6 gallons. With 3 full size oil filters. 
Josh

[JoeH]

1 hour ago, Macktruckman said:

I just checked. Mine actually is a 58 qt. Lol. 14.6 gallons. With 3 full size oil filters. 
Josh

That's ESI+.

[allfritz123]

Yes it is a huge reservoir of oil.  Actually the pan maybe the exact same as yours Josh!   I got the capacity value from the 1981 2VH manual which stated the ESI was 51 quarts.  I took the large pan off of my donor and going to switch it out with my other.  My truck is off road and works in the dust.     The engine with this ESI+  had at least 2 quarts of sludge that I scooped out.   I don't know if people change oil in them!  That also maybe due to the fact that it sat in a container for many years as well  - 10 since we had it and maybe 20 in total!  

I plastigag'd the rod journals this afternoon and mic'd them.   All journals were .003 and the crank itself measured 2.9975 inches which is in the middle of the journal spec!  I did one main so far with plastigage and it measured .003 as well.  None had any taper.  I will plastigage the rest of the mains.   All shells looked original Mack.

I am going to put new shells in on the rod journals.  Their tolerance is .0011 to .00039.  I made a mistake on an early post where I posted the upper limit was .00044.  Shells looked very nice and clean and no scratching.  The rear main had no copper showing and at .003 is at the lower end of the .002 to .005 range for their specs.  I am thinking I will get .002 shells and std shells for the rod journals and mix and match until I get something towards lower end of the range for the rod journals.   I don't see much point changing the mains.  Any thoughts?   I put picture in and you can see the shells. 

Can anyone tell me if Mack shells get marked if they are std or .002 for rod journals?  I can't seem to see a time date of manufacture either.  I know the shells in my GMC diesels have the specs on the back.  The only marking I could find was upper/lower and a part number.  I would assume the number would be different if it was a .002 shell.

Edited December 21, 2023 by allfritz123
grammar

[fjh]

9 hours ago, allfritz123 said:

Yes it is a huge reservoir of oil.  Actually the pan maybe the exact same as yours Josh!   I got the capacity value from the 1981 2VH manual which stated the ESI was 51 quarts.  I took the large pan off of my donor and going to switch it out with my other.  My truck is off road and works in the dust.     The engine with this ESI+  had at least 2 quarts of sludge that I scooped out.   I don't know if people change oil in them!  That also maybe due to the fact that it sat in a container for many years as well  - 10 since we had it and maybe 20 in total!  

I plastigag'd the rod journals this afternoon and mic'd them.   All journals were .003 and the crank itself measured 2.9975 inches which is in the middle of the journal spec!  I did one main so far with plastigage and it measured .003 as well.  None had any taper.  I will plastigage the rest of the mains.   All shells looked original Mack.

I am going to put new shells in on the rod journals.  Their tolerance is .0011 to .00039.  I made a mistake on an early post where I posted the upper limit was .00044.  Shells looked very nice and clean and no scratching.  The rear main had no copper showing and at .003 is at the lower end of the .002 to .005 range for their specs.  I am thinking I will get .002 shells and std shells for the rod journals and mix and match until I get something towards lower end of the range for the rod journals.   I don't see much point changing the mains.  Any thoughts?   I put picture in and you can see the shells. 

Can anyone tell me if Mack shells get marked if they are std or .002 for rod journals?  I can't seem to see a time date of manufacture either.  I know the shells in my GMC diesels have the specs on the back.  The only marking I could find was upper/lower and a part number.  I would assume the number would be different if it was a .002 shell.

The bearing has P2 stamped on it if it is altered! Back in the day we would always check the numbers on the bearing when removing them! It wasn't un common to have an engine with A P2 on a rod  or  one journal even on a main !  ! The rod or main  cap would also  also stamped P2  V8 or six!! I Don't really know why ,either they were quite fussy back in the day or just lazy  and rather than doing a whole crank down 2 thou they put in a 2 thou over! on one journal. I personally doing the job your doing wouldn't mess with the bearings standard at 3 thou is good numbers!

[fjh]

The engine with this ESI+  had at least 2 quarts of sludge that I scooped out. 🤣

For what ever reason my dad had saved some oil out of an old Detroit  2 71 Alice Chalmers HD5  Cat he owned! It sat in a 30 quart  Metal milk can for at least 20 years in the back of our shop! All of the carbon settled to the bottom the first six  eight inches on the top  after sitting was just like it came out of a Virgin can of oil!

So if your 12 years old and  If you got the time to wait  20-30 years you could likely re use the oil and it won't cost you only some time!🙄

[mechohaulic]

20-30 yrs from now do you think an "engine" will still be using oil ?  have to wonder how far this "save the planet " will actually go. glad I won't be around. 

[fjh]

22 minutes ago, mechohaulic said:

 glad I won't be around. 

Me too! By that time all the star trek stuff will be on line and the human race will be beaming our selves where ever we want to go! pluto and Mars and stuff! Won't need farmers won't need truck cars trains! Got my handy dandy replicator by Ktel! or the top of the line Fisher Paykel  replicator with mind link capability's!🤣 

[mechohaulic]

going to be difficult NOT going off topic ; can't go with out a reply. zagar and Evens  back in the '60's wrote the song ::: in the year 2525; now listen to those words and convince yourself thats not where the plant is headed. hope the backward beings of this planet don't go to mars/pluto=why screw those planets up; READY  == of course they may be able to solve the  E6-285 engine problems on mars !!! howd I do for on track.. LOL

[allfritz123]

Yeah off topic!!!  But another song that was virtually unheard off - Viet Nam war era!  Good to listen to his words as well.  Very nice 2525 (B&W version I looked up and enjoyed)!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2fRqBz_XPQ

Edited December 22, 2023 by allfritz123
Comment about 2525!

[allfritz123]

On 12/20/2023 at 8:40 PM, Macktruckman said:

Yes mine had the louver looking grill and it was falling apart anyway. Either way there’s not room for it after the cac is installed. That first one you sent at 4 states looks like mine. 1988 is what my doner truck is. The truck I’m using is a 1978. Mine also has the big pan and 3 oil filters. We have the  ESI package. Extended service interval. Might note my radiator had some threaded holes on the sides that I was able to utilize for some simple angle iron brackets for the cac and radiator support rods. Hopefully yours does too. It really was pretty straight foward. May have to cut and swap the inlet/outlet and weld them back but it was really close. I just couldn’t quite make mine go without doing it. Even that wasn’t difficult. 
josh

I wonder if you could measure the inside width of the horns of your CAC where it fits over the radiator. It would help me immensely.  I am trying to find a suitable CAC.  My overall water radiator width is 37 1/8".  My maximum tank width on top of the radiator is about 34 3/4".  I am wondering if the spot where you sawed off the 4" outlets along the rectangle is about 37 1/8" between to fit along edges of radiator at that point   So far I can't find any local CACs that I could measure.   Is your water radiator exactly the same as mine in your 1978 and measures 37 1/8"?  To me, it looks like an identical radiator to mine but I don't know for sure.  Dimensions given in CAC forums appear to measure "radiator length" and show a picture measuring between it between the 4 inch horn point!  They call vertical height, width!  A bit confusing.

Specifications for a CAC that looks like yours show a dimension width of 30.5 inches.  This maybe the width before sawing off the horns and is measuring minimum ID at the hose outlets before flipping????  Then, when you weld them on the other way, you actually gain the clearance to 37 1/8" overall water radiator width at the top.  I would sure like to know. 

Unfortunately this age of truck is getting harder to find wrecker parts so that I could just go and look at them.

[Macktruckman]

I’ll be happy to measure. Gimme just a bit. Latest tomorrow. I’ll get you some measurements. 
josh

[Macktruckman]

Total radiator tank width is about 37-1/8” and the very top is 34 something so same as yours I believe?

Width from inside horn to inside horn is maybe 37-1/4”. It’s a pretty snug fit. Cac horns pretty much touch the outside edges of the radiator tank flange. The reason for cutting and flipping the horns is because the width where it comes out of the cac is 37-1/4” but where it transitions to a round inlet/outlet for the piping boots to slip on is narrower because the round sets offset to the inside and made it too narrow. I flipped them to make the inside width the same and the offset to the outside. I’ll try to post some pictures. The total overall height of the cac is the sides from bottom to the top of the horns is right at 31-1/8”. 
the total outside width at widest points is across the outside of the horns at right at 42” 

the core of the cac is 30” wide and 25-3/4” tall. 

[Macktruckman]

[Macktruckman]