E7 460 Injector Pop Testing

[1GreasyGirl]

Hello, everybody!

(I hope I'm in the correct forum! I'm still learning my way around!)

I was wondering if anybody can possibly tell me what the psi value should be for pop- testing Bosch injectors on a Mack E7- 460. The injectors I have here can be identified with part number 0432193671. I can find information just about everywhere for smaller diesel engines or gas motors, but I cannot find any info. for this specific injector. (Please take it easy on me! I haven't been doing this for very long!) 

Thank you for your help! 

Safe travels, folks! 

[Mackpro]

On 11/18/2023 at 11:28 AM, 1GreasyGirl said:

I meant to reply to this yesterday, but I was at max posts. My apologies! This truck is a 1999 CL713 E7- 460, with 1998 heads on it. Thanks for your help! 

4554 psi is the pop pressure for your injectors. You can go to the Mack E-media website and click on Pre-2000 info and the choose 1999 in the year. Hit search and find the tune up manual 5-309.  Then choose it and then click view file and it’s free. If any of the manuals in E-media have a “View File”  by the manual part numbers they are free to download. 

[BOBWhite]

Couldn't tell you what specific PSI, but if you are testing all 6 injectors and they are close to the same popping pressure then you should be good. Spray pattern is whats most important when testing injectors. 

 

[Joey Mack]

I beleive around 3500 PSI..   The spray pattern and 'Mist' is also very important..  Will you be pop testing? or able to see it get done?  

[1GreasyGirl]

18 hours ago, BOBWhite said:

Couldn't tell you what specific PSI, but if you are testing all 6 injectors and they are close to the same popping pressure then you should be good. Spray pattern is whats most important when testing injectors. 

 

Bob, thanks for the input! That makes sense! 

[fjh]

18 hours ago, BOBWhite said:

Couldn't tell you what specific PSI, but if you are testing all 6 injectors and they are close to the same popping pressure then you should be good. Spray pattern is whats most important when testing injectors. 

 

I'm with Bob Watch the spray they need to be cracking at similar pressures around 3000 psi With no dribble! 

[1GreasyGirl]

15 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

I beleive around 3500 PSI..   The spray pattern and 'Mist' is also very important..  Will you be pop testing? or able to see it get done?  

That sounds about right to me. I will be pop- testing them myself. This is the first time I will be doing a pop- test and I am completely self- taught, so any information that anybody can give me, I will absorb! Somebody else I had spoken with, thought it was somewhere around 3200 psi, so I will test them all and see what we come up with across the board. I was also told that if you stop pumping before the injector pops, that it should hold pressure for x amount of time, and that it should not leak any fuel before it pops off. 

I read up on how to take the injectors apart for visual inspection internally, but I'm not sure if that's necessary if you're pop- testing, and I'm honestly not too sure about what to look for in a faulty injector, but I might take them apart just to get the experience with the process. 

Reason being for pop- testing: we just did a head swap on our E7 460. I was out with an injury for a little bit, so I was not present for some of the process. I did not have a chance to visually inspect the valve seats on the "new" (they're actually out of one of our decomissioned R- Models) heads. By the time I got back to this project, the heads were already in, and ready for rockers and jake (which is a model 690) installation. I set the valves and the jake, and I had assumed that the injectors were already tested before they were installed (because why would they not be, when you've already got them out?), but they were not. 

When setting the jake on valve number 4, I had some troubles getting my clearance, so I spent hours filing the pin in the yoke down, until I could get my adjustment. I'm not sure if that has something to do with the problem I am having with this truck, (and again, if anything I am saying sounds stupid to you guys, take it easy on me! I'm still learning!). The truck starts right up, which makes me feel like the injectors have nothing to do with this problem, because there's no miss and it idles better than it ever has and does not smoke while idling. The only problem initially was a loss of power and the truck was dumping black smoke so heavy upon acceleration, that you couldn't see anything behind you going down the road. We swapped turbos and it cleared most of the smoke up, as well as helping with the power- loss issue. 

That being said, you can tell there's still a fuel- dumping issue with it, because there's still a significant amount of black smoke with acceleratio- although it's not when you initially put your foot into the pedal- it hesitates and then smokes, which makes me wonder if we didn't put another bad turbo on it. 

Also, when I got back under the valve covers, I noticed my intake valves all tightened up between .001- .004 of an inch. I only had one intake valve that did not tighten. (I am very anal about setting my valves, so I am confident this was not an error, and has more to do with whatever is ailing this truck). I'm leaning toward pulling the heads back off and doing a visual inspection of the valve seats, but while I'm in there, I'm covering all my bases, which is why I'm pop- testing these injectors. My exhaust valves were all still within specs. (Exhaust: .024; Intake: .016; Jake: .015) 

One mistake I'm pretty sure I made, was setting the slave pistons on the jake improperly. I set the jake on the compression stroke, and I just read on the jacobs braking system manual, that you should set your jake with the exhaust valves closed. So that is something I need to fix when I get the rockers and jake back on this boneyard baby! 

Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all so much for the help! Safe travels, everybody! 

[1GreasyGirl]

29 minutes ago, fjh said:

I'm with Bob Watch the spray they need to be cracking at similar pressures around 3000 psi With no dribble! 

Thanks, for the info, fjh! Much appreciated! 

[Joey Mack]

When you ran the valves, were positive that you were up on #1?  And did you adjust them by the book or the John Deere way?

[Mackpro]

What year model is the truck/engine?  Early ETECHs we’re popping at 4300 to 4500 depending on part number of injector. The CCRS engines starting in mid 2001 were at 3000 or 3100 psi and the Aset starting in mid 2003 were 3400-3700 . 

[1GreasyGirl]

2 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

When you ran the valves, were positive that you were up on #1?  And did you adjust them by the book or the John Deere way?

I adjusted them by the book. That's where I actually learned to set valves. When I say self- taught, I mean 100%, with the majority of what I have learned, coming straight out of the books we have here. I use them daily, as reference points for the work I do. So I can confidently say I'm positive I was up on #1. (Would it start if you weren't?)

I will say, I am extremely anal about the flywheel and have done several successful valve sets prior to the truck in question. Before I take the rockers off, I always make sure #1 is open so that I don't get confused when I come back to it. We never know what we are going to get into with the rest of the fleet, so sometimes, I may not get back to it for days at a time.

I was also told that if you're on the wrong revolution, you won't be able to get your adjustments. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, since I have never had that happen, but the only adjustment I had a problem with on this set, was the slave piston for the jake on #4. I could get my feeler gauge in it- it was just very tight. 

[Joey Mack]

Many good points, I'm glad you use the book, also, when barring the engine over, you pull the ratchet towards the oil pan, another way to know you are up on #1, is that the #2 exhaust rocker will be rocked.. Jojo

[mechohaulic]

8 hours ago, fjh said:

I'm with Bob Watch the spray they need to be cracking at similar pressures around 3000 psi With no dribble! 

might sound comical ;NOT meant to be ;;;but when pressure testing injectors  checking for spray pattern etc ;;;DO NOT PUT fingers near spray ' those pressures with inject the fuel into your skin. many will be saying " who would be that stupid ". yes it did/does happen when someone (first timer )  thinks that's neat , wonder what it feels like. keep in mind these statements are based on yrs back when injector testing did not have all the safety guards or what ever todays testers have. AND ALSO watching the patterns DO NOT FOR GET THE SAFTY GOGGLES.

[Joey Mack]

Mech,,  i'm glad you posted..   I thought about posting similar info..  You WILL DIE, if you get injected..  Thanks bud.

[1GreasyGirl]

15 hours ago, mechohaulic said:

might sound comical ;NOT meant to be ;;;but when pressure testing injectors  checking for spray pattern etc ;;;DO NOT PUT fingers near spray ' those pressures with inject the fuel into your skin. many will be saying " who would be that stupid ". yes it did/does happen when someone (first timer )  thinks that's neat , wonder what it feels like. keep in mind these statements are based on yrs back when injector testing did not have all the safety guards or what ever todays testers have. AND ALSO watching the patterns DO NOT FOR GET THE SAFTY GOGGLES.

 

14 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

Mech,,  i'm glad you posted..   I thought about posting similar info..  You WILL DIE, if you get injected..  Thanks bud.

Thanks for the warnings, guys! 😄 My boss actually did make sure to tell me that, but I still appreciate and will take all input! This pop- tester we have is old as dirt! I'll attach some pics because I actually have a question about the readings I was getting off of it. I want to make sure I'm understanding my results correctly. Here's an update: 

I did pull the injectors and they were all dumping streams of fuel instead of misting. I'm thinking this is the answer to my question as to why she was dumping black smoke upon acceleration. Also, this hopefully will account for the power loss as well. (I'm guessing there was no miss on account of the set weakening consistently across all cylinders?) I found the injectors that came out of the truck originally and pop tested them. All six misted nicely and popped off right around 3,000 psi. Held pressure as well. No dribbling. Before tapping them down, I replaced the rings and washers on them, and cleaned them all with a brass brush, then wiped them clean with a paper towel. 

So, where I'm at: Caps are about to be torqued down and then it's on to setting my valves. Valves are still a concern to me, as to why my intakes tightened. With that being said, I'm going to set them again and fix the previous mistake I was making when setting the slave on the jake. With any luck, we will be able to run her for a while after switching out injectors, and then I can check my settings to see if they tighten up again. 

Before I get back to wrenching, I have one question about the readings I was getting off of our pop- tester. As you can see by the pictures, the needle on the gauge rests at around 850psi. (I think that's right.) Does this mean that they're actually popping off at 3,150psi, if my reading on the gauge is 4,000psi? I don't mean to sound stupid, but I was confused about that. All six injectors that I put on the truck actually read around 4,000psi on this pop tester when popping off. 

Thanks for the help, guys! I'll update you as I make progress! Safe travels, everybody! 

[fjh]

33 minutes ago, 1GreasyGirl said:

 

Thanks for the warnings, guys! 😄 My boss actually did make sure to tell me that, but I still appreciate and will take all input! This pop- tester we have is old as dirt! I'll attach some pics because I actually have a question about the readings I was getting off of it. I want to make sure I'm understanding my results correctly. Here's an update: 

I did pull the injectors and they were all dumping streams of fuel instead of misting. I'm thinking this is the answer to my question as to why she was dumping black smoke upon acceleration. Also, this hopefully will account for the power loss as well. (I'm guessing there was no miss on account of the set weakening consistently across all cylinders?) I found the injectors that came out of the truck originally and pop tested them. All six misted nicely and popped off right around 3,000 psi. Held pressure as well. No dribbling. Before tapping them down, I replaced the rings and washers on them, and cleaned them all with a brass brush, then wiped them clean with a paper towel. 

So, where I'm at: Caps are about to be torqued down and then it's on to setting my valves. Valves are still a concern to me, as to why my intakes tightened. With that being said, I'm going to set them again and fix the previous mistake I was making when setting the slave on the jake. With any luck, we will be able to run her for a while after switching out injectors, and then I can check my settings to see if they tighten up again. 

Before I get back to wrenching, I have one question about the readings I was getting off of our pop- tester. As you can see by the pictures, the needle on the gauge rests at around 850psi. (I think that's right.) Does this mean that they're actually popping off at 3,150psi, if my reading on the gauge is 4,000psi? I don't mean to sound stupid, but I was confused about that. All six injectors that I put on the truck actually read around 4,000psi on this pop tester when popping off. 

Thanks for the help, guys! I'll update you as I make progress! Safe travels, everybody! 

You’re right about answering your own questions! Slobbering drooling or dribbling ! Not right! new tips are in order there keep up the good work you done good! Good spray  and clean open and closing at a decent cracking pressure is key!

[1GreasyGirl]

On 11/17/2023 at 10:55 AM, Mackpro said:

What year model is the truck/engine?  Early ETECHs we’re popping at 4300 to 4500 depending on part number of injector. The CCRS engines starting in mid 2001 were at 3000 or 3100 psi and the Aset starting in mid 2003 were 3400-3700 . 

I meant to reply to this yesterday, but I was at max posts. My apologies! This truck is a 1999 CL713 E7- 460, with 1998 heads on it. Thanks for your help! 

[JoeH]

Would that be an ETECH 460 with the EUP's (electronic unit pumps) or a mechanical e7-460? I would think a '99 would be running an ETECH motor.

[1GreasyGirl]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:21 PM, JoeH said:

Would that be an ETECH 460 with the EUP's (electronic unit pumps) or a mechanical e7-460? I would think a '99 would be running an ETECH motor.

This has EUP's. 

On 11/21/2023 at 7:33 PM, Mackpro said:

4554 psi is the pop pressure for your injectors. You can go to the Mack E-media website and click on Pre-2000 info and the choose 1999 in the year. Hit search and find the tune up manual 5-309.  Then choose it and then click view file and it’s free. If any of the manuals in E-media have a “View File”  by the manual part numbers they are free to download. 

Thanks for the info! I do have books here, but they may be out of date. 

 

To update everybody: After replacing the injectors and resetting my valves, she's running smooth with no smoke. I let her idle for about 40 mins and took the motor to 1600 RPM's for about 3-4 seconds. No smoke! She will be going out for a test run on Monday to see what she does with a load on.

Thanks for everybody's input on this. I appreciate all of the help! Now I'm going to tear into another 460 that I'm pretty sure also has an injector issue going on! Black smoke, hard starting, etc. 

Safe travels, everybody! 🙂 

[Joey Mack]

black smoke and hard starting... what does it do it with the C.A.C. boots off??  do you pump the hand primer to see if there is pressure on the fuel galleries?  Jojo

[1GreasyGirl]

On 11/25/2023 at 4:06 PM, Joey Mack said:

black smoke and hard starting... what does it do it with the C.A.C. boots off??  do you pump the hand primer to see if there is pressure on the fuel galleries?  Jojo

Jojo, 

The issue with the second 460 turned out to be a worn cam. 

[Joey Mack]

Ok..  good find..