2000 to 2003 interchangeability

[JoeH]

@Joey Mack @fjh @Mackproand @ any other ETECH gurus.

 So my driver did this about a week ago.

Fortunately no injuries. 

Moving on.

Mixer body is in surprisingly good shape, shouldn't be much trouble getting that part back up to snuff.

Cab took a beating. Insurance guy thinks the cab shoving back into the exhaust stand pipe tweaked the frame, he's claiming to see a couple "bumps" in the top flanges where the frame changes profile depth. I think the frame is fine, looks just how it did when we pulled the frame and sandblasted and painted it 2 years ago. Won't know for sure til we get a professional to look at it though.  Pretty sure insurance is going to separate the mixer and chassis and total the chassis. Which given that it's a 2003 with 27,000 hours and 435,000 miles, I get it.  But it did cost us a pretty penny to get this truck prepped for this mixer, far more than I suspect insurance will pay out.

Looking at a 2000 MR688 as either parts truck or replacement chassis.  The 2000 has a bad cam (I'm assuming rotated roller ate a lobe). 2000 is right side eecu, ETECH engine.

2003 is left side redesign eecu, ai350 engine.

What cross fit issues am I going to run into? Is there any difference in the chassis wiring harnesses that would hinder my ability to put the 2000 cab on the 2003?  This will be an ongoing thread for a while as we sort out this mess.  MR688S chassis on both of them I believe. Haven't seen the 2000 in person yet.

[Joey Mack]

JoeH,,  I read this a few times and thought about it as well..   I myself can not just spout out a bunch of do's+ dont's..  the 2003 is an AI, the 2000 is an E-Tech, which I like better..  The engine harness's may be different as far as the 2000 may go around the back of the engine and the 2003 goes around the front, therefore the EUP section will be different, and there is a boost sensor on the 2003,  and I beleive the triangular 1939 plug has 3 wires on the 2003, and only 2 on the 2000..  I know that I should know this off the top of my head with ease, but I have lost some knowledge..  I think Mackpro will clear this up. I will follow this thread..  Hopefully I can post correct info...  Jojo

[JoeH]

Thanks; we're in the very preliminary stages of sorting this mess out and figuring out what the big pictures gonna look like. I believe there's differences in the major harness connectors on MR's vs RD's etc.  I also think I've heard EECU's are VIN specific and may not work with unmatched VECU's?

[JoeH]

According to my vmac 3 book, the bulkhead plug connector for the MR is located on the driver side of the front crossmember. I see no indication of it being any different one year to the next.

[JoeH]

Assembling a list of books and dvd to order from Bergeys this week:

 

[Joey Mack]

if I'm reading this correctly, you have a question about the harness fitment?  Can you call Mack and get the part numbers for each harness, using the model and vin from each truck? the handful of these engines that I have built using 2 or more engines to build 1, have been as basic as routing the original harness correctly. as far as grooming the engine, I have put older manifolds on newer engines, and the EECU that is correct for the application of the truck. I see you have an Allison transmission,  I would look at that circuit and pin location in the bulkhead connections..  also, a while ago I used and engine from an MR, and put it in a granite, I believe it was a 2003 model. I had to move the fan mount up to fit into the cooling shroud,   ''Man it's been a while''..  

I hope I helped add to your already great knowledge of these trucks, Jojo 

[Joey Mack]

I have this thread running through my head,,  i was thinking about the front mounted PTO.. are you using it? if so, just for kicks, check the crank hub coupler for fitment and thread type. yours should be all metric,  but just in case, check it.  

[JoeH]

No, we pull the drive shaft off the damper wheel and pull the pump/mounting plate.  I told the driver a few weeks ago "if you ever roll a truck over, GET THE ENGINE SHUT OFF IMMEDIATELY!" so that was playing through his head as he was going over. He was a bit disoriented, but says he found the key at some point quickly.  It ripped fuel lines off at the lifter pump when the cab shoved back, so even if he didn't get it shut down quickly it would have starved out pretty quick.

Wiring is my biggest fear. All the mechanical swap stuff is childs play. Out of curiosity, outside of the engine sensors and eecu, how many plugs does the engine harness have and what do they plug in to?

[JoeH]

I'm hopeful that a cab swap is really all this truck needs, apart from miscellaneous air and fuel lines that ripped. Biggest fear on the cab swap is wiring.

[Joey Mack]

I may not be any help..  Yes, the mechanical stuff is.. not too hard to figure out,  I guess i'm not clear on which harness concerns you..  I was thinking engine harness..  if so,,  dont see why you couldnt keep the harness you have..  the 2003 long block doesnt care.. ( the cam may be different)  then you can keep your current ECU's..  

[JoeH]

I've never had to deal with vehicle harnesses.  Because the cab ripped off the passenger side hinge, and all the harnesses go through the hinges, I'm concerned that there's damage to the harnesses. I have never had to deal with harnesses before.  Depending on how things go, if I get the chance I'd love to just put new harnesses in, but I'm not sure how easy that is to do.  Engine harness I could see being the easiest, but what about the harness that goes from the frame rails up into the cab?

[Joey Mack]

buddy, that will be a job..  I may be out in space on this one, but ....  with as many harnes's I have rebuilt/repaired...  I would look at the damaged area and cut it off flush..  the harness should have all white wires with the code stamped in it..  I'm not trying to make this sound easy..    I assume the spot were it bends at the left front hinge is one area that concerns you??  I used to repair MR/LE  trash trucks a dozen + years ago...   but without being there, I'm no good to you..  Ias far as wire harness's,  I just solder new wire and terminals in place..  I have one in my shop right now.. its for an E-Tech..  I just fix'em..    

[JoeH]

Havent dived into it yet.  No obvious damage to any wiring yet, and the engine did fire up momentarily so the tow truck could turn the steering wheel, but it starved for fuel and didn't run for more than a few seconds. 

Driver side wiring appears ok, so does the passenger side. But the wiring runs up along the radiator grill and jumps into the cab right along the top of the charge air cooler.  I'm concerned the cab "bruised" the wiring harness at the top of the CAC from the passenger side hinge breaking and the cab shoving back against things. 

At this point I'm just stressing out about unknowns.

[Joey Mack]

oh hell,,, you are smart enough to fix the wires..  

[JoeH]

Smart enough? Maybe, maybe not. But if you keep hitting your head against the rock long enough, eventually it'll submit to your will... 💩

[Joey Mack]

that wire harness is wrapped really well..  I would hope that at most you have pinched wires,, and not severed wires..  no matter,,, you can read the code on the wires to find the match to two severed ends slip on some heat shrink,  and solder them back together..  .. just sayin; ,     Jojo

[JoeH]

@Joey Mack got the mixer body off on Black Friday, had my cousin Pete "The Crane Man" bring one of his cranes over to lift it off.

Insurance guy came to look at truck more than a week ago and he tried telling me the frame got tweaked. BS. There's not a thing wrong with this frame. He sounded like he was ready to total the chassis, but I told him we're not totalling anything til I get the mixer body off and get a truck collision guy over to look this thing over. I think I'm gonna get away very lucky, only needing a cab and miscellaneous hoses and brackets, tie rod & ends, maybe kingpins and drag link ends too, just to be safe. Axle shifted about 1/4 inch on the passenger side, so it could be into springs as well.  

Just need to lock in on a decent parts truck and we can get this truck back together.

[JoeH]

On the frame he thought a couple of the places where the frame changes depth and also splays out around the engine/trans were kinks from the accident. He also thought the frame would be twisted,  which yea on a dump truck I'd expect that. But this mixer bolts rigid at the back, and mid and front mounts are spring-hold bolt mounts, which only allow about 2" of twist deviation from the mixer body, which has its own frame that adds rigidity to the truck.

[Joey Mack]

Are MR cabs available in your area?  Here they are all trash trucks..  and in rough shape..  Just curious..  

[JoeH]

Same here. They're either concrete pumps and $100,000+ or garbage trucks and beat to heck. Part of what's frustrating about the whole thing, ours was a bit of a gem compared to anything else as old out there!

[Joey Mack]

it looked really good to me..  you guys busted your humps getting it road ready..  

[Joey Mack]

Yeah, as great of a truck the MR is, when they wreck,  its a cab swap, unlike a tilt nose truck that needs a hood, and maybe a door, if one just lays over..  Its great that you have the skills to fix this one, Seems to me the insurance adjuster was not knowledgable enough for your claim..   Jojo

[mechohaulic]

everyone has a different situation and reason; none of which I've been involved in yet heard of. my question is :: would $$$wise it be practical to let insurance man say 'it's totaled" then buy it back and repair it with insurance money??? other then some states make it impossible to register a "totaled "vehicle ????

[JoeH]

If he wants to total it I'll tell him "BS, I can fix it for 80% of that." That's typically the cutoff point where they total it.  If it's totalled, they auction it off and I have Last Right to buy it at auction price.  So I'm expecting them to value my truck at $30k even though I have $70k into that chassis.  Then some exporter buys it at auction for $10k, I gotta buy it back, and I get $20k for my $70k investment. I will have no problem fixing the truck for -80% of $30k.

[mechohaulic]

totaled then PUBLIC auction first is bunch of crap. had my own personal experience with the vultures at my auction. details NOT needed; I'll be banded from this site from language and have to go take blood pressure pills. yrs back totaled items could be bought back by co. 

[JoeH]

Found a cab on Friday and sealed the deal on it. Insurance appraiser is going through a family emergency at the moment, which may slow our process dont a bit but we work to live, not live to work, so we hope all is well with him.  

Dad and I and everyone we've talked to/showed the truck to are pretty well convinced this truck is definitely fixable, we just may have to push a little, which goes well enough with my confrontational personality, so it should be heading over to Bergeys in the next day or so to get the ball rolling.

The cab we found is through COOPSKW where my dad bought our first Mack (our '79 r686st, which is still running most days because this MR is taking a break...) in the mid 1980's. Cab is a whole front cutoff of a 2000 MR688 with a running 300hp right side EECU ETECH with an Allison HT740 cable shift transmission. Cutoff should be going to Bergeys for them to swap all the electronics and wiring from my truck into the replacement cab. I'll be sure to make sure they try to keep all the wiring and electronics from the 2000 intact so I can transplant them into some other truck some day if I take a notion to it.