Engine rebuild on a '53 B-61T: END673

[mowerman]

20 hours ago, Keith S said:

Here's what I found:

• 283hp E6 out of a 1981 Mack RD600
• 2,800lbs
• It runs but should be rebuilt
  • Intake valve springs broken
  • Cylinder wear
• $750
• $900 shipping

My only concern is installing it in my B61. Mating it to the transmission and front crossmember?

Fuel injection lines were removed but...

Hell man I would jump on that good luck bob

[terry]

6 hours ago, Licensed to kill said:

Personally, I would never consider running that trans without pulling completely apart and, at the VERY least inspecting if not just outright changing all the bearings. The comment was made that those tranny's are not made for the HP that the E-6 produces and that is correct. However, unless you intend to pull HEAVY loads or maybe race it in the 1/4 mile, it shouldn't matter. I would think that a good, serviceable duplex should be easy to find and cheaper to buy than rebuilding what you have. If you DO Intend to pull relatively heavy loads, heavy enough that you want a dual disk clutch, being a 283, that engine should be a Maxidyne (EM-283) and if so, a 6 speed Maxitorque was designed for the torque curve generated by that engine and should also be relatively easy and inexpensive to find. I have all that stuff, twin stick 6 speed, dual disk clutch assembly and bell crank setup for converting the linkage BUT, the shipping would probably be pretty steep and then there is crossing the boarder from Canada which may, or may not create issues (it SHOULDN'T but we are taking about Govt so). Kinda too bad, if you WERE interested, I just came back from Oklahoma and could have taken it with me and shipped it from there. BTW, I also have a duplex to sell but again, shipping would be prohibitive and I don't think you would have any trouble finding either a duplex OR a 6spd Maxitorque either locally or at least relatively close. They are fairly plentiful. Also, I]the reason I am suggesting a duplex rather than a triplex or quadplex should you search out a replacement is that, with the Maxitorque engine you don't NEED 15 speeds of the triplex, you don't really NEED the 10 speeds of the duplex, the engine was designed to run with 6 speeds (5 actually). Well, that is all that I think I know but I am a neophyte when to come to these Marks so I am not guaranteeing anything I had said to be "gospel", just what I have gathered in my recent and ongoing B-61 engine swap journey. All just opinions and worth exactly what you paid for it (maybe less) LOL. 

Have to comment on the trans. Statement about how many gears are needed, you do need more gears with a single counter shaft trans behind the 237 or 285 engine that series of trans will not take the lugging down them engines can do.   Terry

[Licensed to kill]

2 minutes ago, terry said:

Have to comment on the trans. Statement about how many gears are needed, you do need more gears with a single counter shaft trans behind the 237 or 285 engine that series of trans will not take the lugging down them engines can do.   Terry

Would that not be dependant on how much weight one intends to pull with it?. Fortunately, the triple countershaft 6 speeds should be easy to source and cheap to acquire so if that is a concern, should be easy to just go that route. 

[terry]

the six speed is a direct trans. would not work good with the older rear ratios, the right model of the old style trasmissions are overdrive in both boxes.   terry

[mechohaulic]

3 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

I'm very late to the party here 

Only thing to be careful of with running beads of weld to pull liners is the crank

If the crank is still in the block and a booger from the welding gets stuck on the crank it can become costly 

This is normal only a issue on a inframe build 

Cut some thin tin the same width as the journal and wrap it around and a hose clamp

You can then hook in pretty confident it will all be good 

I remember looking at Vlads photos some years ago with the from a Lanova motor in a normal workshop press, block was nearly as big as the press and I  seam to recall took all press effort to push the liners home

Some maybe dry ice for dry liners and the electric blanket off the spare bed on the block for a day or so might make the job much easier putting the new sleeves back in

Anyways,  this is not gunna be a in frame rebuild as the motors well and truly out of the frame now

 

Paul 

another quick option to crank cover would be one or two welding gloves placed in bottom of cyl. high tech would be piece of asbestos cover; for most welding gloves work.  one wraps the journal another for added coverage lays on top of first in liner.  easier to move cyl to cyl.  also stick rod makes more sparks (does better on heat distribution?) wire feed not as messy challenge to get in cyl at times. lest we NOT forget how /where the ground is attached !

[Joey Mack]

Many good points about protecting the crank shaft..  I had the good fortune of having the engine on a stand, so the crank was out when I did my work. 

[mechohaulic]

12 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

Many good points about protecting the crank shaft..  I had the good fortune of having the engine on a stand, so the crank was out when I did my work. 

WELL you "high tech " mechanics have all the good toys to work with !LMAO🤣. bet you never did an engine rebuilt outside in a gravel bank = yep I did but can't remember why = some things are better forgotten. now a Polack having an engine on stand welding liners might go and cover the crank journals !! why ="cause that's what the book said to do. bet you didn't know the close relations between Polacks and red necks =when engine building ;;; had to stay on topic.!!!! LOL

[Licensed to kill]

38 minutes ago, terry said:

the six speed is a direct trans. would not work good with the older rear ratios, the right model of the old style trasmissions are overdrive in both boxes.   terry

Excellent point. I had forgotten about that as I changed out the diff as well to one with a MUCH faster ratio. 

[Keith S]

How about some pictures of that engine stand? Has to be a beast.

Working outside during inclement weather - brake jobs during snow storms. Twice.

[Keith S]

1 hour ago, mowerman said:

Hell man I would jump on that good luck bob

I'm on it. Wednesday Jan., 3rd.

Now I have to buy a couple more manuals.

[mowerman]

I have only done one in frame I was living in the San Fernando Valley at the time and my driveway. It was 106° every day I was working on it and yes I can remember pulling automatic transmission out of a 55 Chevy wagon when I was just a teenager, it was only 17° out, ha ha now there is  some talent. I wouldn’t do it now at 67. 

[Keith S]

I suspected transmission issues when the truck was jacked up for hauling it to the shop - water dripping off the output shaft. But it was, "clean and clear water so maybe it was just a little rain water sitting on top of the case. And how much water could there be?" 

The input shaft didn't turn... maybe it was simply jammed between two gears??? I pulled the duplex cover before its drain plug, to see how much just to see how much oil there was. Water's heavier than oil so it'll be bottom. The top picture shows water, not oil.

I'm going to rebuild the transmission - hopefully nothing requires crazy torque numbers. 450ft-lb will be tough.

[mowerman]

No, I doubt it. I don’t think anything is anywhere near that high gear is all looked to be in pretty good shape. Frankly, I think you could just pull it all apart and clean everything up. Good luck.

[terry]

I’ll bet at least countershaft bearings are junk.   Terry

[Licensed to kill]

2 hours ago, Keith S said:

 

I'm going to rebuild the transmission - hopefully nothing requires crazy torque numbers. 450ft-lb will be tough.

The nice thing about that is then you KNOW what you have. 

[Vladislav]

Bearings are going to be all standard bearings excepting a double race one at the rear end of the compound countershaft. Cones are standard Timken or others but that double race cup is an original part which was even possibly made by Mack in house. I had luck locating a NOS one for my Duplex TRD-37 and my tranny thogh being rusty inside looked much more promising (and contained oil not clear water) as the one on the pics.

Ok, now I recall I also had "adventure" locating a small roller bearing installed in the rear end of the pinion shaft. Main box main shaft spins in it with its front end. I could find the part# and further used interweb search and found the part in Australia and for nearly hunderd and a half local bucks. Plus shipping. Spent a couple evenings on the net and found much cheaper alternative locally but the bearing race needed a bit of machining. If you hit that trouble PM me and I will describe the details.

[Joey Mack]

Keith,  This is the stand i'm using..  It is perfect..  Unfortunately it belongs to the man, who's engine is on it..  This picture is from today..  I hope to be able to buy this stand or one just like it..  It's an oldie, but it's a Damn Goody !!

[Joey Mack]

Mech...??  Now your starting to sound like a cranky Old Coot..   I have only ever built them in the truck,  and not always in a shop..  However,,   I am spoiled now..  

 Still Love You,  Mech...   Jojo

[Joey Mack]

I guess I should have posted these pic's, Keith..  It's an ENDT 673, for a '61-ish B-Model..  The stand was made by one of his employee's.. its a strong stand but I have to use my engine crane to rotate it..  and I will have to take it off the stand and put it on blocks so I can put the flywheel housing on it,  cant put the pan on without the front and rear covers..  I'm just glad it's not in the truck..   just sayin'..  Jojo

[Keith S]

What attachment points are you using with blue stand?

A shop I worked in had an overhead rail-mounted electric chain hoist that helped flipping and rotating and moving these beasts around.

[Joey Mack]

the part you cant see, is the flat stock that is drilled to match up with the alternator bracket.. I think its 1/2'' thick..  its stout..  

 I'm heading back out there, if I rotate it I will take pictures of it, and post them. 

[JoeH]

We just bought the harbor freight 2,000# engine stand for a Case A336BD 4 cylinder diesel engine we're rebuilding that dumped all its coolant into the oil... Caught onto its problems before any bearing spun. Had to make some longer brackets to bolt the engine on there, but it holds this engine nicely. I wouldn't put a compete Mack engine in there, but if you're the adventurous sort you might be able to get away with putting the block in there if you support the front end with an engine hoist or car jack... This engine rotates fine with a cheater pipe on the handle.

[Mark T]

Harbor Freight always asks if you'd like to buy the extended coverage..... they should offer some kinda insurance for when you get hurt using their junk. 

[Joey Mack]

Keith, here is a couple pics of how the engine stand works..   Jojo

[JoeH]

Man that stand is a monster.