What are your thoughts on ballrace turntables vs teflon 5th wheels?

[Gorilla]

Hi Everyone,

I am relatively new to the truck ownership game and need some advice.

Specifically i found the truck i purchased had a ballrace turntable which was locked into place for many years (which i have read is bad for a ballrace turntable).  It was seized in place and spent quite a few hours with wd40, high pressure washer and degreaser (and repeat with obviously wd40 at the end), i got it unseized.

Thing is its now really "crunchy" while turning to safe to say the bearings are not in the best of shape and ultimately not servicable.

Question i have is what are your thoughts on replacing the ball race or replacing the 5th wheel for one that has a teflon plate?

Essentially i know their goal is the same of making the trailer connection to be easier to turn and put less stress on the components.

Which way should i go and why?

Thank you in advance,

Chris

[JoeH]

Replace the whole thing is what I've heard in the past, not sure it's worth the safety risk of fixing, but I don't have much experience with 5th wheels

[mrsmackpaul]

Should be able to just replace the ball race easy enough

Ball race are by far the most common type in Australia, simple, safer and far more stable than a grease plate type

 

Paul

[Gorilla]

37 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Should be able to just replace the ball race easy enough

Ball race are by far the most common type in Australia, simple, safer and far more stable than a grease plate type

 

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the input and im leaning that way but my understanding is that the ball race type needs to be hooked up to a trailer that has the wedge behind the pin, and as i will be towing another companies trailers im pretty sure they dont have the wedge.  So without the wedge ive read you hack to lock the ball race turntable into position so it doesnt move in which case it behaves like a normal fixed turntable which 1. negates having a ball race turntable and 2. is not a good idea s this is not good for the ball bearings.

Of course if i had my own trailer i would make sure i have the wedge as it makes sense but alas here we are.

Chris

[Gorilla]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Replace the whole thing is what I've heard in the past, not sure it's worth the safety risk of fixing, but I don't have much experience with 5th wheels

I can get a whole new ballrace assembly at a fairly reasonable price (around 1-1.2k aud), i dont think i can fix the existing one due to the nature of the damage.

[mrsmackpaul]

Normal deal in Australia and I am guessing the rest of the world

A ball race turntable has a pin to drop in so you can tow a normal trailer with out a cheese block

I don't have ball race turntables at all, not because I dont like them but because I have never bought anything with one on it

So this been said I would happily use a ballrace turntable 

So tip over axle and chassis tippers, think you blokes call them end dump, if you don't have a ballrace turntable the the primemover (tractor) needs to be straight when tipping for stability 

A normal grease plate, all the wear is on the jaws 

There's advantages for both but more for the ballrace, they are smoother, less maintenance (provided you do actually grease them) and last a lot longer

If it was me I would just chuck a new ballrace in a grease it weekly

Paul

[70mackMB]

Paul,   Are the trailers with a cheese block set up so the block can be removed or retracted? Then the trailer can be pulled by a non- ballrace turntable equipped truck?      .....Hippy

[mrsmackpaul]

Yes they generally are Hippy 

 

A couple of bolts and the cheese block is out 

 

Paul 

[Gorilla]

12 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Yes they generally are Hippy 

 

A couple of bolts and the cheese block is out 

 

Paul 

Worked for a dozen companies and nobody told me about ballrace turntables hahahaha, no kidding. 

[mrsmackpaul]

As for teflon, I find if I am hauling a trailer with grease on it's plate and slip a teflon turntable under it with out cleaning the grease off it grips and tears the teflon off

So I reckon teflon are crap on turn tables, no one wants to be cleaning grease off a trailer before hitching up

Well not this no one anyway 

 

Paul

[davehummell]

I ran those teflon plates for years on two tractor trailers they didn't unhook only for servicing the tractors. I felt that it was a good setup and they helped save the trailer and the fifth wheels. the next fleet I took care of the head driver said they don't work I replaced fifth wheels on all of the trucks and built new king pin plates and new kingpins on four or five trailers.

[Swishy]

We tried a pre owned ballrace turn table once it was well worn so we put new balls in. the local bearing place had 3/4" balls @ 75cents each ... or 20mm balls (near enuff same size) @ $1.90 each. now we stamdarised on a Quick Realease Turntable with a greasy plate underneath ... the main 12" diameter bronze bush is $150 to replace

se we went to the UBute plastics shop and purchased 10' of waist belt size ( 10' x 2" x 1/4" ) @ $35 ... when we winch our trailers up to the QRTT with a mechanical driven winch behind truck cab there is th@ much gearing and momentom th@ we would crush the balls in a ball race turn table 

cya

Edited December 27, 2023 by Swishy

[mechohaulic]

1 hour ago, davehummell said:

I ran those teflon plates for years on two tractor trailers they didn't unhook only for servicing the tractors. I felt that it was a good setup and they helped save the trailer and the fifth wheels. the next fleet I took care of the head driver said they don't work I replaced fifth wheels on all of the trucks and built new king pin plates and new kingpins on four or five trailers.

having installed 50-60  5th wheels on new units while at Mack trucks; the Teflon plates are ONLY FOR UNITS COMPLETELY CLEANED OF GREASE.  units NOT being dropped regular for what ever reason( tank loaded / heavy unit etc) the teflon plates are excellent . while at Mack truck a fleet of prestressed concrete haulers had osculating  fifth wheels installed . 4 in spacers under the wheel.  the wheels had two pop up locks which locked the carrier bar  to the wheel giving better weigh Distibution on the load during cornering. I find the ball race turn table similar yet interesting. 

[Gorilla]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:41 AM, mechohaulic said:

having installed 50-60  5th wheels on new units while at Mack trucks; the Teflon plates are ONLY FOR UNITS COMPLETELY CLEANED OF GREASE.  units NOT being dropped regular for what ever reason( tank loaded / heavy unit etc) the teflon plates are excellent . while at Mack truck a fleet of prestressed concrete haulers had osculating  fifth wheels installed . 4 in spacers under the wheel.  the wheels had two pop up locks which locked the carrier bar  to the wheel giving better weigh Distibution on the load during cornering. I find the ball race turn table similar yet interesting. 

Funny you would say that, my truck was used for concrete panel haulage before i bought it.  Last job i was driving trucks with Teflon plates the 5th wheels were getting covered in grease and i did not notice an issue.  Im in a very steep learning curve as i got out of IT(computers) a few years ago, was driving tippers and tautliners in heavy rigids and only drove Big rigs in the last year.  Im still in two minds of which way to go as i will be driving another companies trailers and they will have grease on them 100% and im not going to clean up a trailer every morning i pick up a new one (as trailers are pre loaded and waiting).

[mechohaulic]

Teflon plates will work properly IF the two units =truck/trailer are mated  "permanatly". swapping truck// trailers defeats the purpose of Teflon.  entire fleet Teflon with trailer swaps ;; I can't answer . if your  truck had/has teflon and it is being hooked to other trailers having grease on them = remove the teflon. the grease/ grit will chew up the teflon. damage done to teflon then just keep running .