E9 Failure pics

[Supermutt]

Dropped valve seat & broken liner and piston. These issues were not on the same engine. I am interested in what caused the piston/liner ? 
 

thanks 

[fjh]

So the piston damage is likly due to an injector tip being ruined by seat chunks ! And run for too long after the failure! How long was it run after it started banging!?usually you can expect to replace piston liner head  injector and turbo!

 

[Supermutt]

Fred, Iam not sure how long it ran. I just picked up the engine yesterday for parts. The head looks ok so far after pulling the pieces of piston off it lol.

 Here’s a pic of the head that was on the broken piston/liner. I will continue stripping the engine tomorrow. Not sure if you saw my message I sent you on my truck and rad psi issue ? 

[BOBWhite]

Surprised there isn't any damage from shrapnel going into other the cylinders. Where would you source new pistons and liners? PAI doesn't seem to have E9 stuff available anymore. 

[Supermutt]

Bob, PAI quoted me an e9 inframe kit a month ago. $9700.  At the time they were waiting on some items for complete kits. Minor things but should have them 100% now. 

[Supermutt]

Bob, no shrapnel. Just melted aluminum lol. The rings miraculously stayed on the piston. Most of the piston top circumference was stuck to the head but separated off pretty easy. 

[Supermutt]

For the record I forgot to state that this head & short block are an e9 450 1989 block no 9L 0364   

[fjh]

10 hours ago, Supermutt said:

Fred, Iam not sure how long it ran. I just picked up the engine yesterday for parts. The head looks ok so far after pulling the pieces of piston off it lol.

 Here’s a pic of the head that was on the broken piston/liner. I will continue stripping the engine tomorrow. Not sure if you saw my message I sent you on my truck and rad psi issue ? 

sorry I Didn't see your reply !

Did it come with a Fuel pump?????

I once ran across one of these that the engine ran so long after the failure the only noticeable thing was a miss ! no banging sound! The piston was in similar condition !the pieces were pounded into What was left of  the piston The picture you show there it almost looks like possibly a cracked liner as well ! And likely a cracked counter bore! They tend to crack near the top where the  top ring stops ! That is my concern for your running engine ! the only way I know of  to isolate this  is to remove the cross over at the rear of the water manifold and fab up some riser tubes with drain cocks on the top (  WE actually built a set of theses)  and run the engine and watch which side develops bubbles!  By the way! Did you check the head bolts on the running engine bottom corners ??? The problem with a v eight is you can't take the Water pump out of the equation like an e6 / e7 !  Makes it harder to nail down!

[Supermutt]

The head bolts appear to be ok. I guess I could put a torque wrench on them and apply pressure to see if they move ? 
  I did get a pump with the engine. It’s a United Technologies pump. 
  I hope my running engine isn’t something that serious ? Zero smoke at idle. Just black if you step on it. Here is a pic of the pump. 
 And the liner on that bad hole is broken. 

[fjh]

11 hours ago, Supermutt said:

Fred, Iam not sure how long it ran. I just picked up the engine yesterday for parts. The head looks ok so far after pulling the pieces of piston off it lol.

 Here’s a pic of the head that was on the broken piston/liner. I will continue stripping the engine tomorrow. Not sure if you saw my message I sent you on my truck and rad psi issue ? 

sorry I Didn't see your reply ! I once ran across one of these that the engine ran so long after the failure the only noticeable thing was a miss ! no banging sound! The piston was in similar condition !the peices were pounded into What was left of  the piston The picture you show there it almost looks like a cracked liner as well ! They tend to crack near the top also   

[fjh]

So look at the power tower where the pump mounted! This is and 89 engine Correct ? Does the power tower have extra un used plugged off holes?  Some where in this era they were transitioning to Inline pumps and the power tower was drilled either or and plugged off accordingly to the Pump installed! they also did this on E7 when they transitioned to R Bosch!  It was only a short period of time this happened!

[Supermutt]

Fred, you are a wealth of knowledge !  This power tower is just as you said !  3 extra holes with Allen plugs in the hole. Wow. Never knew. 
what came first the Ambac or the United Technologies v pump. 
   See attached pics of power tower. 

[Supermutt]

So at first glance what looked like 1 or 2 broken liners is piston aluminum build up (melted ? ) on the liner toward the top. It separated from the liner when I scraped it. 

[fjh]

Yup injector spray will cause that !

[Vladislav]

On 2/26/2024 at 3:09 AM, fjh said:

Yup injector spray will cause that !

Do you mean bad spray pattern? 

Sorry for the dumb question.

[fjh]

10 minutes ago, Vladislav said:

Do you mean bad spray pattern? 

Sorry for the dumb question.

yes bro! running Bad timing can cause this to! this engine has appeared to have run low on coolant the liners are All scuffed and the  end result it took out the bottom end! Just abused ! In my opinion in order of failure>  Valve seat dropped they kept running it and then it likley cracked a liner and lost coolant and over heated kept running it GAME OVER! Seized a rod! So many things can compound when a seat drops and you keep running it If your luck you don't grenade The engine like this one! Most often when these seats dropped  it happens as your shutting the engine down it leaves just enough time for a piece to fall out  so when you go to start up next cycle your engine has a pounding knocking noise! and you Say WTF!😡

[Vladislav]

So do E9's drop a seat just after the engine shut off with no a few minutes idling before that?? Honestly dropped seat idea sends shivers up my spine relating to any vehicle. Regardless I've never experienced such "luck". BTW if it's fallen could it hang on the valve plate for some while before fracturing and meeting the piston and liner walls?

The sequince idea looks realistic. So lay outs of the same kind with car engines.

[fjh]

20 hours ago, Vladislav said:

So do E9's drop a seat just after the engine shut off with no a few minutes idling before that?? Honestly dropped seat idea sends shivers up my spine relating to any vehicle. Regardless I've never experienced such "luck". BTW if it's fallen could it hang on the valve plate for some while before fracturing and meeting the piston and liner walls?

The sequince idea looks realistic. So lay outs of the same kind with car engines.

Vlad AS I mentioned the situation compounds and any number of scenarios is possible ! not sure this about other engines the 8 665 866 also had the same issue BUT it was two valve ! The seat would just come loose and make a pop pop sound when being shut down , being a bigger seat it would not break up or fall out the four valve seat was much smaller more fragile ! It is defiantly not pretty when it happens and the chain of events expensive!  

[Vladislav]

2 hours ago, fjh said:

Vlad AS I mentioned the situation compounds and any number of scenarios is possible ! not sure this about other engines the 8 665 866 also had the same issue BUT it was two valve ! The seat would just come loose and make a pop pop sound when being shut down , being a bigger seat it would not break up or fall out the four valve seat was much smaller more fragile ! It is defiantly not pretty when it happens and the chain of events expensive!  

Thank you for the lesson!