Jamaican Bulldog Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Government mandates that are forcing EV transition in the auto industry is also targeting the heavy truck industry. Edison Motors in Canada ( see video in link) started by two logging truckers have come up with an innovative idea that is more viable for many trucks to avoid the drawbacks of Electric Vehicles such range, charging availability and costs. The truck uses a diesel electric hybrid set up similar to freight trains to over a truck that is both more efficient than traditional trucks while having a lot of torque. A 9 liter Cat engine paired with a electric generator allows the truck to achieve 20 mpg and even regenerative braking avoiding the need for having a engine braking system. They also have conversion powertrain kits for older trucks and converted an old Kenworth W923 logging truck to this powertrain. It seems that such a technology could be viable to other truck uses as well. Is there any chance Mack might develop something like this with newly designed trucks such as the ones that will be using the Volvo cab? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 But I thought the EV push was to eliminate gas and diesel engines? Terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 9 minutes ago, terry said: But I thought the EV push was to eliminate gas and diesel engines? Terry it is. Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 29 minutes ago, tjc transport said: it is. So that story of Jamaican bulldog don’t make sense, it uses a diesel engine,right? Terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Go on YouTube and search Edison Motors. lt is very interesting what they are doing with that truck. There must be a dozen or more videos of them. .....Hippy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBWhite Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, terry said: So that story of Jamaican bulldog don’t make sense, it uses a diesel engine,right? Terry Jamaican Bulldog? I'm out of the loop! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BOBWhite Posted February 26 Popular Post Share Posted February 26 People who live in the real world figured out that eliminating gas/Diesel engines isn't really possible. Modern diesels are so clean that this hybrid setup would be cleaner than running a full EV that's coal powered. I'd like to see this system put on an old mack with an E6 or E7. Keeping those engines at the same RPM and load all day would probably double or triple the life of the engine while getting 15+ mpg! 2 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 the new trucks get great fuel mileage. my new Kenworth with 600cummins and allison auto trans will see 10 mpg on long interstate highway runs. even loaded in city it sees 6-7 mpg. far better than the 5 on the road and 3 in city of the 99 mack with 400 and 8ll trans. so i have no doubt that in a properly designed diesel/electric unit they could not see 15+ mpg like BobWhite says Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) On 2/25/2024 at 6:21 PM, terry said: But I thought the EV push was to eliminate gas and diesel engines? Terry Yep thats what people in the virtual world thought but real world conditions came knocking. Real truckers designed a truck using the best of both worlds that is more practical and less expensive. There was an article in the most recent Wheels of Time on them real truckers designed a truck that uses Edited February 28 by Jamaican Bulldog 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaican Bulldog Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 On 2/25/2024 at 7:05 PM, terry said: So that story of Jamaican bulldog don’t make sense, it uses a diesel engine,right? Terry It uses a 9 liter Cat diesel engine with a electric generator and components similar to a freight train and get up to 20 mpg. Its not a pure EV so it doesn’t have the limitations of one. I believe they can have any motor that is sufficient to turn the generator 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-547330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 8 minutes ago, fjh said: On 2/27/2024 at 6:14 PM, Jamaican Bulldog said: It uses a 9 liter Cat diesel engine with a electric generator and components similar to a freight train and get up to 20 mpg. Its not a pure EV so it doesn’t have the limitations of one. I believe they can have any motor that is sufficient to turn the generator Twice the torque of diesel! they have yet to put it to work doing the job they intended it to do! It moved a full load of logs on flat ground just fine time will tell if it does it’s intended job! As a side note they have decided on scania as the engine they will proceed with when they get rolling! Unless a customer wants other than! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 I think a lot of people have missed the point of whats behind this idea The logs are generally up the mountain and the mill down the mountain The lads describe it in a video like this Truck is charged over night Morning the truck is charged and drives to logging coupe Truck loads and as it decends the mountain back to the mill with a load on the regenerative braking charges the batteries back up The truck gets to the mill, unloads and is fully charged and the cycle continues The diesel motor is only used on log journeys to mills further away were the electric charge isn't enough to reach the mill In normal operation the diesel should be rarely used Paul 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 5 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said: I think a lot of people have missed the point of whats behind this idea The logs are generally up the mountain and the mill down the mountain The lads describe it in a video like this Truck is charged over night Morning the truck is charged and drives to logging coupe Truck loads and as it decends the mountain back to the mill with a load on the regenerative braking charges the batteries back up The truck gets to the mill, unloads and is fully charged and the cycle continues The diesel motor is only used on log journeys to mills further away were the electric charge isn't enough to reach the mill In normal operation the diesel should be rarely used Paul Correct! Paul , As I said it’s intended job! And I wish they would get on with it ! Elon has been baiting people on with his full electrical situation for years now with no solid outcome!these guys don’t need to follow the same path! There is tons of equipment that could benefit from what they are doing! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 Those guys are screwed. No one higher in the pecking order is ever gonna let them continue. Their ideas make entirely too much sense. Best they can hope for is to get paid well to go away. They've already been snubbed by government. It's a shame. I love what they're doing, and don't see how anyone could go wrong wading into electric trucks the way they're going about it. ( if that's what someone wanted to do ) All these clowns with the say don't really want what they talk about. If I had to guess, I'd say these guys have generated (pun intended) more interest in electrifying commercial vehicals amungst people in transportation who aren't getting subsidies (guys like ....us) than anyone else has. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 31 minutes ago, Mark T said: Those guys are screwed. No one higher in the pecking order is ever gonna let them continue. Their ideas make entirely too much sense. Best they can hope for is to get paid well to go away. They've already been snubbed by government. It's a shame. I love what they're doing, and don't see how anyone could go wrong wading into electric trucks the way they're going about it. ( if that's what someone wanted to do ) All these clowns with the say don't really want what they talk about. If I had to guess, I'd say these guys have generated (pun intended) more interest in electrifying commercial vehicals amungst people in transportation who aren't getting subsidies (guys like ....us) than anyone else has. Agree ! We can hope I guess ! Some one with deep pockets may buy em out and bury it! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 l think this is their latest video. .....Hippy 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 I'm not sure I like this.. I watched the video, yes, it's impressive, but to me it is also depressing... They are feeding the electric vehicle mandates that non of us need.. sorry guys... not a fan right now.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 25 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: I'm not sure I like this.. I watched the video, yes, it's impressive, but to me it is also depressing... They are feeding the electric vehicle mandates that non of us need.. sorry guys... not a fan right now.. All good Joey! Better than any any alternative I’ve seen so far though! Elon hasn’t proven anything yet! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 electric IS NOT the way to go for trucking at the current time, as technology is not ready, no matter what big brother says. on the other hand, the hybrid technology these guys are using IS the way to go. an electric truck would have left me dead on the road friday... why? because i did 390 miles friday. the technology is not available yet to made a truck that can run 80,000 lbs for 400 miles. coca cola ordered 120 electric T680 day cab tractors last year from the local kenworth dealer. took delivery of the first 15 and canceled the order because the trucks could not even handle the 120 mile per day use without charging...even though they were supposed to be able to handle 250 miles without charging. 2 Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 I thought about this a bit. I have driven hybrid cars for my city job. It seems like a good combo. one of them is a small Ford 'something'.. It actually had a lot of pep in it's step, and kept up with I-85 traffic. As far as big trucks, I guess it can work well, it's the full electric trucks that I don't want. I always thought the advertised range of E.V.'s was exaggerated. showing a p/up towing a big boat or camper in the foothills, or one racing across the deseert slinging sand, B.S.!!! anyway... to me it adds to the safety of the driver,ever since the DPF issues came about, all I can think of is a driver trying to do his job, but cant because the truck layed down. now he is stuck on the side of the road, ( not safe). middle of winter and no heat, ( not safe), out of battery power and no charger anywhere, I guess i'll stop here. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 24 minutes ago, tjc transport said: electric IS NOT the way to go for trucking at the current time, as technology is not ready, no matter what big brother says. on the other hand, the hybrid technology these guys are using IS the way to go. an electric truck would have left me dead on the road friday... why? because i did 390 miles friday. the technology is not available yet to made a truck that can run 80,000 lbs for 400 miles. coca cola ordered 120 electric T680 day cab tractors last year from the local kenworth dealer. took delivery of the first 15 and canceled the order because the trucks could not even handle the 120 mile per day use without charging...even though they were supposed to be able to handle 250 miles without charging. Yup you don't want to be to far from an outlet with any of these! my old mack shop just received first of 6 garbage packers for a local community here and they are still awaiting there charging station to put them into service! Can't wait to see how this turns out!🤣 Just got thinking of a new business venture I should buy my self a new portable welder and run around charging dead garbage trucks! 🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 20 minutes ago, fjh said: I should buy my self a new portable welder and run around charging dead garbage trucks! 🤣 You get that idea from the meme of the Tesla pulling a gas generator on a trailer? Or the wife with a generator in a wheelbarrow following her husband pushing an electric lawn mower with an extension cord! LOL! .....Hippy 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559191 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 (edited) 2 hours ago, tjc transport said: electric IS NOT the way to go for trucking at the current time, as technology is not ready, no matter what big brother says. I'll agree with that statement with the cavoite, of longer distance trucking. Local and I mean very local drayage can be done. It is about matching the realistic capabilities to the task, if it is a good match, then electric has a whole lot of advantages, if it is not a good match then it has a whole lot of drawbacks. Both Jo-Jo and I have IHC K-7's that were, back in the 40's trucks that pulled semi trailers. Either air braked or hyd with an air pack. It was what they had so it got used. I'm glad I didn't have to use mine for my trucking career. Wrong tool for the job, but they did do it back in the day. CT electric move the same tonnage of paper rolls that a semi can today, from the rail head to the printer back in the teens and 20's. It was used because it was a good match to the task at hand. As much as I like the "Big Boy" and love to see it (or any steam train) pulling, I am also glad we aren't still moving all our rail freight on coal fired steam trains. School buses and other low miles, lots of stop and starts that return to a base, make sense if the miles and capacity are a good match. 1 hour ago, fjh said: I should buy my self a new portable welder and run around charging dead garbage trucks! 🤣 Obviously someone who has no idea about the power needed to recharge, unless you have a welder that can produce 480 three phase at over 400 amps! That would be some "portable welder"! Far easier and better to tow them while they regenerate braking to recharge the battery. Do a little reading on "flow batteries" and you might get an idea on what is coming. When the Military talks of electrifying that is what they are looking to do it with. Electric has a much lower heat signature on the battle field, which is why it is attractive. It combines the fast re fueling of a liquid with the low heat signature of an electric, the electrolyte holds the charge and can either be recharged in situ or exchanged much the same way diesel is pumped into a tank. Like anything, matching the tool to the task is key. No matter what Elon or others think, we are not to the point that todays electric can do long-haul trucking, but my head is not so far in the sand that I can't see a day when that is no longer true. I like my old trucks, and will fight anyone who tries to take them from me, I like old steam locomotives and love to see them work, but I also can embrace new technology when it is better suited to the job. Right now, electrics aren't there, but I think they will be. No transmission, no gear shifting, gobs of torque off the line all make the diesel electric locomotive so successful, and would be great in trucking as well. Edited September 29 by Geoff Weeks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 3 hours ago, Joey Mack said: I thought about this a bit. I have driven hybrid cars for my city job. It seems like a good combo. one of them is a small Ford 'something'.. It actually had a lot of pep in it's step, and kept up with I-85 traffic. As far as big trucks, I guess it can work well, it's the full electric trucks that I don't want. I always thought the advertised range of E.V.'s was exaggerated. showing a p/up towing a big boat or camper in the foothills, or one racing across the deseert slinging sand, B.S.!!! anyway... to me it adds to the safety of the driver,ever since the DPF issues came about, all I can think of is a driver trying to do his job, but cant because the truck layed down. now he is stuck on the side of the road, ( not safe). middle of winter and no heat, ( not safe), out of battery power and no charger anywhere, I guess i'll stop here. my brother has an electric mustang. summer range is 280 mile, winter range is around 175. apparently batteries discharge faster when cold. he lives 15 miles east of newark airport in nj. he can drive to atlantic city, but needs to recharge to get back home. but he stays at borgata hotel when there, and they offer complimentary recharging. Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted September 29 Share Posted September 29 3 hours ago, fjh said: Yup you don't want to be to far from an outlet with any of these! my old mack shop just received first of 6 garbage packers for a local community here and they are still awaiting there charging station to put them into service! Can't wait to see how this turns out!🤣 Just got thinking of a new business venture I should buy my self a new portable welder and run around charging dead garbage trucks! 🤣 i dont even need to do that! just put the onan 17.5 KW diesel generator with the 80 gallon built in tank on the back of the pickup. 1 Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/73912-any-chance-of-mack-offering-a-diesel-electric-hybrid-truck-like-edison-motors/#findComment-559197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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