03' Big Red Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I have a 1998 R model with the 58000 lb rears and would like to convert to hub pilot or stud pilot. I’ve been told they take special rims due to the larger hub/cone assembly can someone give me some information about this ? what would the correct rims be for this and could I run 24.5 tires ? I’ve hear it’s only for the 11r 24 set up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I don't know if I've ever seen 58k rears with tubeless rims/tires. Only 11.00-24 and 12.00-24 tube type tires. Its an interesting question if the wheel ends can be converted to 22" hubs to run 24.5 tubeless tires. Someone on here will probably know if its possible to do, however, I would call Barry at Watts Mack and ask the question. If it is possible he will be able to give you all the correct part numbers for the hubs, bearings (if necessary), seals, etc. My buddy did a conversion of 38k Mack spoke hubs to hub pilot and Barry told him everything that was needed and gave him all the part numbers in only a few minutes. Being the truck is a 1998 I don't think finding the information will be much of an issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03' Big Red Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Thanks for the update, it originally came with the 12r24 tube tires with 24” Dayton and was converted to 22” Dayton’s to run 11R24.5 i was thinking about changing it over to run hub/stud pilot but was told it required special rims and even then may be for the 12r24 tube tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Sounds like you would be good to go then. Like I said if its already converted to 22" hubs to run 24.5" tubeless rims then I don't see a problem. There should be a hub pilot hub that crosses to that spoke hub's dimensions I would think. Maybe you would run into weight rating issues. Maybe hub pilot isn't rated for that much weight? Just looking at the two styles its easy to see how spoke hubs can safely bear a lot more weight than hubs supported by wheel studs. I dunno. I would just call the experts and ask the question. Also what is the truck used for? Depending on the application, spokes provide a lot of benefits in my opinion. And being that they are already converted to 24.5" tubeless hubs/wheels I'd say you probably in the best position already..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03' Big Red Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 The bearings are much larger and it takes a special hub not at all like 44-46000lb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 There may be a "European" bolt pattern disk hub that will carry the big bearings. Plenty of disks made for those hubs, but still not what I'd call common. That said, I wouldn't have made the change to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 https://truckpartsinventory.com/part-details/82219704/used-stud-pilot-budd-rear-wheel-end-spoke-hub-for-sale Pulled this off the googleweb. Haven't been able to find a P/N. Gonna hop on Truck Paper and look up RD/DM SX models and see if anyone has budds. Then you can pull a VIN off the truck,go to Mack and get drive hub part numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 https://www.truckpaper.com/listing/for-sale/31897769/1987-mack-rd688sx-flatbed-trucks Nearest I could find, has budd front wheels, can't tell about the rear axles though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 https://www.webbwheel.com/online_catalog_hubs.php Might be able to find hubs here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 This is an expensive change even if the stuff is still available. If I'm not mistaken it requires a hub change (obviously) along with different drive plates. There used to be a guy here with a Superliner with 58s, he had chrome Daytons on it. I remeber seeing Budds with 58s, not sure I ever saw hub pilots on them. Budds are kinda going backwards as far as a truck with 58s as they can't take the weight anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 13 minutes ago, Mark T said: T. Budds are kinda going backwards as far as a truck with 58s as they can't take the weight anyway. Kinda begs the question, what is the intended use of the truck? If you plan on using the 58's to their fullest, then stay with 24" TT, if you are not, but are still going to load the truck, I think those 58's would be an albatross in terms of parts when on the road. If it is a "hobby" truck then the 24" tires will out last your lifetime, so again no reason to change. Seams like a whole lot of money to spend if you don't need too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Might even be cheaper to change the bogie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9" 22.5 budd rims are rated for 10,000 lbs. My MR688S has 315 duallies on the drives. Most 315's are rated for 10,000 lbs, so on a tandem axle with duallies you have 80,000 lbs of tire and rim capacity. That's plenty for 58k rears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 I can’t say I have ever saw anything but spoke wheels on 58000 rears,I have 58000 on my cl and run 12R24.5 rubber,what’s the reason for trying to swap it out if you don’t mind me asking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 Being a two man company, I prefer Budds because brakes are much easier to replace by yourself. But on the roadside, a flat tire is much easier to replace with spoke hubs instead of Budds, if you have someone able to bring you a wheel and a lug wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 16 minutes ago, JoeH said: Being a two man company, I prefer Budds because brakes are much easier to replace by yourself. But on the roadside, a flat tire is much easier to replace with spoke hubs instead of Budds, if you have someone able to bring you a wheel and a lug wrench. I have a good heavy duty plug kit and a can of starting fluid,that’s what I love about tubeless tires..🤔🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 28 minutes ago, JoeH said: Being a two man company, I prefer Budds because brakes are much easier to replace by yourself. But on the roadside, a flat tire is much easier to replace with spoke hubs instead of Budds, if you have someone able to bring you a wheel and a lug wrench. Those in the picture JoeH posted look like they might be it. They're inboard brakes. No advantage to them as far as brake work goes. I'm thinking they may be the only way to get disc type wheels on 58s. I could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I know more than a few oldtimer that never pull the wheels for brake jobs, doesn't matter if inboard or outboard, they pull the hub and wheels as one. If you are working on a smooth shop floor, a big piece of tin layed under the tires and slicked up with soap and water, just slide them out. I was always doing it in dirt, so would use my boom truck when I could. Trailer hubs you can't do that, but they make a slider tray for dual, which is slick. Quicker to pull the hub and wheels together and allows for bearing inspection also. Only down side is if you find you need a drum, with out board you have to pull them apart, in board it can depend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I've always thought a pallet jack would be the way to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Greased up board or a pallet jack is pretty much the standard deal Doing it with the wheels on is by far the easiest by a long way They just slip right on If you do have to drop the wheels for some reason, a motor bike jack works a treat If your on dirt, chuck a sheet of 5 ply down to wheel a pallet jack on Even if using a greased board a sheet of ply makes the job a lot more pleasant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03' Big Red Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/7/2024 at 11:03 AM, JoeH said: https://truckpartsinventory.com/part-details/82219704/used-stud-pilot-budd-rear-wheel-end-spoke-hub-for-sale Pulled this off the googleweb. Haven't been able to find a P/N. Gonna hop on Truck Paper and look up RD/DM SX models and see if anyone has budds. Then you can pull a VIN off the truck,go to Mack and get drive hub part numbers. I inquired about them and was told even though they are stud pilot they require a special rim and can only run 24” tube tires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03' Big Red Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/7/2024 at 4:22 PM, MACKS said: I can’t say I have ever saw anything but spoke wheels on 58000 rears,I have 58000 on my cl and run 12R24.5 rubber,what’s the reason for trying to swap it out if you don’t mind me asking? Ease of maintenance mostly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03' Big Red Posted April 11 Author Share Posted April 11 On 4/7/2024 at 12:09 PM, Geoff Weeks said: Kinda begs the question, what is the intended use of the truck? If you plan on using the 58's to their fullest, then stay with 24" TT, if you are not, but are still going to load the truck, I think those 58's would be an albatross in terms of parts when on the road. If it is a "hobby" truck then the 24" tires will out last your lifetime, so again no reason to change. Seams like a whole lot of money to spend if you don't need too. I like the 58’s as they ride much nicer than a 44 plus I get into some severe off road situations and like the idea of having the heavy rears to keep parts from breaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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