coop661 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I have a '93 ch613 with the 350 E7. I bought this truck September of last year and it has run great, now that we are getting into the warmer time of year I am noticing the temperature gauge moving up from 180 when pulling a full load. My question is, is it safe to operate as long as it stays within the green range? I have noticed the clutch fan stays running all the time, as soon as I start the truck even when cold the fan is always spinning . I changed the coolant back in April, the old coolant did not appear to be dirty but I was replacing the air compressor so it seemed like a good time to do a full coolant change. I'm including a picture of what my gauge looks like when the temperature gets above 180, sometimes it will go almost to the red but I have never seen it go into the red. Thanks for any help you all can give Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I assume a viscous fan, it will stay engaged for a bit, then when it warms up it will relax, then when heat off the radiator heats the coil on the front it will engage the fan to cool the radiator... can you post pics of the fan mounting? If it has been welded or locked in place, you need to fix that. this topic has many options for repairs, so good detail and pics are important... Jojo 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 consider accuracy of the gauge could be off a tad. stays in green high side except able. big question is :: "fan stays running?? " as joey stated a viscous fan is continuously spinning ; unlike a horton which when not needed goes for the ride. viscous will spin appear to be doing something yet NOT fully engaged for engine cooling. the temp running high side could be due to number of variables. outer temp /load weight pulled/ amount of bugs etc in radiator=intercooler- ac cores. if this IS a viscous fan number one place to look first the bi-metal plate front center of fan hub, dirt/ crap collects stopping plate from flex pushing in plunger to transfer viscous fluid to second halve engaging fan. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joey Mack Posted June 6 Popular Post Share Posted June 6 I wouldnt be surprised if it is gunked up between the CAC and the Radiator.. Just sayin' 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 i do remember the ability to lock a horton fan; can't recall viscous being able to lock ? far as this unit = another question is "with warmer weather coming , truck runs warmer "" .. by chance warmer temps high enough that AC is being used?? answer -yes ::: now temps in front of radiator even hotter which will show on gauge. todays world with 3 cores in front of fan . collection of bugs etc greater also. have another brand of truck working on today for same issue. have to be extremely careful if using air hose or pressure washer to clean cores. I separated the AC core expecting the worse (truck hauls hay ) = actually wasn't that bad between cores. AC expansion valve/ dryer on order. the joys of retirement. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 yes to not using pressure washer.. I have had to comb a bunch of radiators because the washing people dont know to not spray the radiator... 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop661 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 I do not have a picture of the fan but I do know it's a viscous fan, I can post a picture of the mount this weekend. Yes the AC is running now with the ambient temps being higher. I have not pulled the CAC off to clean behind it, but I did do the best job I could with it fully assembled. I will put that on the short list and I will also make sure to clean the fan hub. Thank you all for the responses I really appreciate it! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 14 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: yes to not using pressure washer.. I have had to comb a bunch of radiators because the washing people dont know to not spray the radiator... interesting when the fins on outside are bent over from pressure washing out to in .looks clean and see how good we did blasting crap deeper in to cores. but it's too much work to clean from fan side out. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 somehow they manage to bend them even with the CAC in front, Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 How is your boost pressure? How hot does your pyrometer get when pulling hard? On hard pulls you should be hitting 30psi+, if you aren't hitting that and your pyro is pushing 1000-1200 degrees then I'd suspect cracked Charge Air Cooler. I found mine leaking a year or so ago. Pyro rarely hits 900 degrees now, and the truck will hit 34 psi in just the right scenario. 95 RD688, E7-350. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 And my coolant runs cooler now, as the heads are running cooler from reduced exhaust temps. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrsmackpaul Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 Start with the basics Is it clean, I don't mean clean to look at Clean as in, hold a lead light on one side and actually look thru the core, you should be able to see the light very clearly Blockages have a bad habit of getting sucked in pretty deep People try and blow them out and this just pushes the blockage deeper Into the medicine cabinet and long pair of tweezers, some mig if you have some with a small hook bent on the end Just some small wire if you don't have mig wire This type of operation takes me a full day if they have been badly blocked 180°f is getting to hot to be running for any length of time in my uneducated opinion Paul 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 67RModel Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 22 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said: 180°f is getting to hot to be running for any length of time in my uneducated opinion I would think this is 100% false. 180F is clearly at the very low side of the green normal range on the gauge. Most diesel engines operate between 180 and 210. 210 is probably where an engine will operate if the cooling system is under maintained and on a long hard pull. a 50/50 glycol water mixture used in a 15-16 psi cooling system will have a boiling point of 235-240 degrees F. Obviously heat is the enemy and you want to run a cool as possible but steady state 180F while under full load is not any cause for concern whatsoever IMO. With that said I think these gauges are garbage. I went through this same thing a while back on my 94 RD. My gauge read about the same thing under steady state operation. I was concerned because it is still in the green normal range but if you try to figure out what the water temperature really is based on that gauge I think you would say its somewhere between 215 and 225. Who knows. but 215-225 is too hot for steady state operation IMO. I have no realistic way to test the accuracy of the gauge so I replaced the temperature sensor in the water manifold that gives the gauge its signal. It actually made the gauge read a little higher. I just didn't believe it. I checked the upper radiator hose with an infrared gun and was getting readings in the 170-180 range depending on when and where I took the reading from. I figured the original gauge could not be trusted or realistically used to tell where the engine was running at. I bought a high quality, USA made, mechanical temperature gauge and installed it as a redundancy and to see what the water temperature is actually doing. My E7 runs a 180-182 all day long and on a long hard pull may get up to 185-188 but never exceeds 190. As others have said go after all the easy stuff first. Clean and check the condition of the cooling system. Thermostat. Fan clutch. Boost leaks. Etc. If they all check out OK do yourself a favor and get a good gauge that will actually tell you what's going on. 2 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 I read somewhere a diesel engine should run around 100 degrees of ambient temperature.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 A lot depends on the construction of the engine. Those with water cooled aftercoolers, it is always a trade off between best temperature for efficient running and still be able to cool the intake air from the turbo. Those without an aftercooler or with an air to air, the limiting factor is how close to boiling it can run without cavitation damage to the liners. Those that can handle higher radiator pressures the higher temp they can handle. When the coolant pressure is held to around 4 psi than 218 to 220 would be the high limit. There is no hard and fast rule as to how hot is too hot. Look at the owners manual and see what they recommend. Deutz (air cooled) are known to run fine at 300 degrees F head temp just fine. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 The thermostat in his truck is a 185 degree... 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 18 hours ago, coop661 said: I do not have a picture of the fan but I do know it's a viscous fan, I can post a picture of the mount this weekend. Yes the AC is running now with the ambient temps being higher. I have not pulled the CAC off to clean behind it, but I did do the best job I could with it fully assembled. I will put that on the short list and I will also make sure to clean the fan hub. Thank you all for the responses I really appreciate it! I would check the fan first,before u start the truck and when cold the fan should be easy to turn and after the truck is hot check to see if it’s locked up,possibly it’s not fully locking up.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrsmackpaul Posted June 7 Popular Post Share Posted June 7 7 hours ago, 67RModel said: I would think this is 100% false. 180F is clearly at the very low side of the green normal range on the gauge. You are correct, my bad conversion of Celsius to Fahrenheit Anyway I'm allowed to stuff up, sorry about that Off to the naughty corner for me 2 5 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
coop661 Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 Wow, a lot to take in here! Thanks everyone for the responses! My truck does not have a Pyro so I can't see how hot the turbo is. I have checked for boost leaks and have not found any. I would say it pulls very strong for being such a small motor so I would guess not a boost leak issue? I will try pulling the CAC off, doing a thorough cleaning, and the thermostat, and go from there. In regards the the gauges accuracy I will try to check that as well. Part of me thinks if it's in the green don't worry about it, but at the same time that green range is pretty wide and it makes me nervous Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 the green range is RIGHT !!.. just do the basics for P.M. reasons.. Its a CH.. put a tall stand under the bulldog with the hood ope, release the 2 spring loaded helpers, and they hood lock, if it is still there, that will give you some extra room. 1 bolt on the bottom of each corner of the CAC, and 1 bolt on each side. then the boots, just lean it back, and wash it all out.. no need to remove it.. unless you have another plan for it.. be aware of the white nylon washers, you need to put them back in. if they are gone you can use rubber to make new ones or some other sheet of nylon stock, they do sell the CAC mount kit as well.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74238-e7-safe-operating-water-temperature/#findComment-553253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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