BottleHauler84 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) My ETECH 460 needs a camshaft due to lobe on #1 lobe bad due to a broken lifter. My question is, when rebuilding this engine, would it be beneficial to rebuild it an older E7 spec (camshaft, pistons, injectors and EUP) and reprogram to a 427 file and then upgrade turbos and put better flowing nozzles in? I never was super excited by the power of this 460 and I'm not sure about using bigger nozzles with the CCRS 460P with wasgated turbo because of the boost range issues they have and go into derate. I was just thinking maybe go 427, bigger. Turbo and nozzles and still enjoy the updated version of the latest pre-emission E7 ETECH. Just wanted some opinions on this if anyone has any recommendations. Edited July 11 by BottleHauler84 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Im really weak when it comes to programming H.P. however, mechanically, the cam key is offset, with the white end facing out, i have put steel lifters in place of the ceramic lifters. As far as turbo and nozzles, i think turbo is the same, and nozzles are different. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottleHauler84 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 I appreciate it Joey. Is there much difference between the ccrs cam versus a non ccrs ETECH camshaft? Other than the cam key? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Heinz Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Joey Mack said: Im really weak when it comes to programming H.P. however, mechanically, the cam key is offset, with the white end facing out, i have put steel lifters in place of the ceramic lifters. As far as turbo and nozzles, i think turbo is the same, and nozzles are different. I only have a 300HP and 460 HP VIN to compare, but the turbos are the same, nozzles different. GRANTED, the VINS I'm using are a 2000 and 2001 truck. The EUP's are identical as well. When it comes to lifters, what are the better ones to use, steel or ceramic? The latest and greatest supersession is ceramic tipped if that means anything. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joey Mack Posted July 11 Popular Post Share Posted July 11 Ceramic lifters are good.. I just dont like how they are easy to crack with a simple mistake like, bumping a lifter when inserting the cam, or when you torque the rocker shafts down and a push rod moves over then ''Snap's'' into place. that shock can crack one. in that case, if you say,,,, oh heck,,, it'll be fine, and leave it. when you crank the fully assembled engine and the roller breaks off, now you just killed the cam, and now you have to take it all back apart, and buy another high dollar cam shaft.. I welcome any and all rebuttle's to my opinion... now if you have the engine out and can tip it upside down, the cam install is almost worry free... 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 CCRS EUPs are a different part number. CCRS means Current Controlled Rate Shaping. Instead of a binary On/Off injection, the injection is done in 2 phases, an initial modest phase that gets the burn started, then it goes into second phase where it goes all in. This is likely controlled by the EECU, but like Joey I'm weak on programming knowledge. Use whatever EUPs you're supposed to have. Heads and injector nozzles are different on ETECH/CCRS motors in believe. ETECH has fuel return galleries drilled into the head, CCRS I don't think does. At least the AI/AC motors that are CCRS don't have them. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 In my notes from 2010, one of the best running engines we drove was a CCRS 427 HP with 460 injectors. But also Mack did a software change to a different data file that really made it come alive. Best I remember it was originally a 460 CCRS with the classic random derate due to the turbo issues. Detuned engine software to 427 and installed a 427 turbo while leaving the 460 HP injectors. Performance took a hit more than we thought it should, corporate sent us a different data file and bam we gained it all back and then some. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 460XT is the file you want. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 9 hours ago, JoeH said: 460XT is the file you want. Sadly it was only for the first generation of ETECH’s 1998.5 through 2001.5 then the CCRS started and they dropped the 460 XT. They did have the 460 performance and 460 economy for the CCRS but both were prone to the wastegate turbo derate issues. Had a buddy with a 1999 CL713 with the 460XT , I copied that engine data file and reflashed a lot of ECM’s to the 460 XT many years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 10 hours ago, Mackpro said: Sadly it was only for the first generation of ETECH’s 1998.5 through 2001.5 then the CCRS started and they dropped the 460 XT. They did have the 460 performance and 460 economy for the CCRS but both were prone to the wastegate turbo derate issues. Had a buddy with a 1999 CL713 with the 460XT , I copied that engine data file and reflashed a lot of ECM’s to the 460 XT many years ago. Yup cool Mackpro didn't think it was possible to copy the data file you are a true guru ! Soon as any of these hit 33 psi boost they would derate I hated these engines ! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottleHauler84 Posted July 25 Author Share Posted July 25 (edited) On 7/21/2024 at 11:17 PM, Mackpro said: Sadly it was only for the first generation of ETECH’s 1998.5 through 2001.5 then the CCRS started and they dropped the 460 XT. They did have the 460 performance and 460 economy for the CCRS but both were prone to the wastegate turbo derate issues. Had a buddy with a 1999 CL713 with the 460XT , I copied that engine data file and reflashed a lot of ECM’s to the 460 XT many years ago. How does a man take a CCRS 460p and go to a 427 and get rid of the derate issue? I'm thinking of going this direction, but I don't know if I'm going in the right direction. I guess what I'm wanting to do is overhaul my 2002 ccrs 460, and new cam, bearings and lifters. I'd like to be able to install a bw 701 turbo and stage 2 injectors but not get the dreaded derate mode over 33psi of boost. Anyone have a good recommendation on what route to go on this? I'm not looking to build a monster, but I'd like to get to the actual 450-500 range of power with good torque. I have an RTLO22918B transmission, heavy driveline and Mack CRDP202/203 Rears, so I'm good on being able to harness the power with no issues I believe. Edited July 25 by BottleHauler84 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I often thought of deeking the sensor by regulating it to seeing only 33 psi I never had the opportunity to do it however it was a thought! If the computer could only see 33 psi it would maybe let the engine have more fuel! It’s only a thought! Something I always wanted to try! A simple adjustable regulator could be used would just have to adapt it! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Funny you say this FJH,, I have thought to use a volume knob hooked to my coolant sensor for my '90 G-20 van, with TBI.. just to see if I could mess with how it warms up, and drives.. Just because.. I may do it this weekend.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 17 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: Funny you say this FJH,, I have thought to use a volume knob hooked to my coolant sensor for my '90 G-20 van, with TBI.. just to see if I could mess with how it warms up, and drives.. Just because.. I may do it this weekend.. we once accidentally put an mp8 boost sensor in an mp10 it turned that thing into an animal it would pull its heart out! It was so scary we got the right sensor for it in case it blew it self up! 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555880 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Mack won’t come out and say exactly what PSI of boost will derate it but they want the wastegate adjusted to open at 32 to 33 PSI. So I would think the derate level is higher than 33 psi. There were some software updates for the 460 CCRS if you were operating in above 4,000 feet. Edited July 26 by Mackpro 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottleHauler84 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 18 hours ago, fjh said: I often thought of deeking the sensor by regulating it to seeing only 33 psi I never had the opportunity to do it however it was a thought! If the computer could only see 33 psi it would maybe let the engine have more fuel! It’s only a thought! Something I always wanted to try! A simple adjustable regulator could be used would just have to adapt it! This actually might be worth trying. I like the way you think!!! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Mackpro said: Mack won’t come out and say exactly what PSI of boost will derate it but they want the wastegate adjusted to open at 32 to 33 PSI. So I would think the derate level is higher than 33 psi. There were some software updates for the 460 CCRS if you were operating in above 4,000 feet. It’s unfortunate ! As the emissions got tighter they chipped away at the horsepower ! Calling a 350 a 460 was just BS we actually had a truck dynoed an alleged 460 dynoed out at just over 350 and they wouldn’t do anything about it! Lost that customer! Just political crap ! 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBWhite Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 9 hours ago, fjh said: It’s unfortunate ! As the emissions got tighter they chipped away at the horsepower ! Calling a 350 a 460 was just BS we actually had a truck dynoed an alleged 460 dynoed out at just over 350 and they wouldn’t do anything about it! Lost that customer! Just political crap ! They seemed to make a huge deal about it when they went from gross to net horsepower in the 70s. They apparently didn't want to mislead customers but I guess that all went out the window later. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74337-rebuilding-2002-etech-460p-ccrs-ideas/#findComment-555958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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