seyser Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I recently picked up a hopper bottom grain trailer and was wondering how to identify what axle(s) it has? Its a 1995 model year but the builder sourced used cutoff running gears at the time. This one is spring suspension with budd wheels and no ABS. I looked briefly for a tag but didn't see anything affixed to the axles. I will post a couple pics later today when I'm near the trailer. I don't have much experience with commercial trucks and trailers so trying to learn what I can. What is the proper way to find the correct pads and drums it uses? Do I have to remove the drums and measure them to confirm the correct parts? How about pads? Also I see I might have an axle seal or two leaking so would like to possibly get those on order as well but want to make sure I get the correct part. Can anyone recommend a quality pad and drum brand? Prefer USA! Iv read Gunite, Webb, and Stemco Centrifuse as a couple drum manufacturers. Thanks in advance! Jeremy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 You really don't need the axle mfg for much of anything. Most likely it will have Rockwell (Meritor) brakes but there are other possibilities Eaton is the next likely. If you aren't up on truck stuff, best to take the parts with you and match them up. There are Rockwell Q and Q+ and they look similar but are different. Drums should have a casting number on them to ID them. Shoes most often have a core charge anyway, so you want to trade them, so make one trip and know you have the right ones. Unless the cut-off is from something real odd it will have 16 1/2 x 7 shoes. By "Budd" I assume stud pilot, and they can be inboard or outboard drums. Outboard would be most likely unless the cut-off was old. Get hardware kits and when the shoes are off check the S cam bushings. I don't have a recommended brand for drums, just what the truck parts place has. Some of the older odd ball drums are only available from lesser known brands. I try to get balanced drums if I can, but wouldn't bother for a farm wagon that isn't going to spend every day all day at highway speeds. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seyser Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 Thanks for the reply and all good information. Here are a few pics of the axles. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I see a bump on the brake shoe web, likely to be a 4515-Q shoe set, and the wheel seal is like a Natl' 370025A.. GW, makes a good point. Me personally, I'd like to see 4 Maxi's on there, and that is very easy to convert/add on.. 30/30 chambers are common and do quite well.. Jojo Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I agree about spring brakes on all axles. I'd have to look it up in the fed regulations, but I can't remember a trailer with spring brakes on only one axle, but not on any others. Hard to say on age, I see auto slacks, but that doesn't mean much. Biggest problem I come across on older axles is worn S cam bushing and worn spiders where the bushings are pressed in. If they are badly worn, it will be impossible to keep the brakes in adjustment and working correctly. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Biggest problem I come across on older axles is worn S cam bushing and worn spiders where the bushings are pressed in. If they are badly worn, it will be impossible to keep the brakes in adjustment and working correctly. YEP !! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 For what it is worth, I did a quick search to see if I could find anything that says spring brakes are required on all trailer axles. I did not find anything that said that in those words, but and it is a big but, the mfg of the trailer must be able to certify that the trailer meets stopping distance requirements both with service and emergency brakes. Many tractors were made with spring brakes on one drive axle only, IHC with IHC and some Eaton axles, applied the Power divider lock when the spring brakes were applied so they held both axles. I have come across tractors with spring brakes on both axles and only one. I would want spring brakes on both, Back in to a parking space with a drop-off and the rear axle hangs over the drop, the trailer could end up in the ditch! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seyser Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 I appreciate all of the good information. Although I agree having spring brakes on both axles would be ideal, I will probably run it as is. I filled a couple of hubs with oil and will have to monitor those. I imagine they will need a new seal. I didn't actually measure the brake pads but I see the drums have quite a lip on the outer edge and plenty of groves where the pads run. My thought was to just install new pads, drums, and replace leaking seals and it would probably be good for my lifetime. This trailer will easily see less then a thousand miles annually. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 if you back off the brake shoes, you can put a 1/4'' wide piece of flat stock in the gap. if the flat stock is below the pads your good, if not,,, new shos needed... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) My take is, looking at picture which can be deceiving, new drums are called for, with new drums, you'd be stupid not to do shoes and hardware. S cam bushing are done as needed. Thin drums hot spot and get so hard the shoes don't "bite" and braking can be very poor even with new shoes on old drums. I tended to run my drums for 2 sets of shoes and then replace. Being able to stop in time loaded negated any cost saving from re-using old drums. Compared to lighter trucks/cars, heavy truck drums are cheap, esp when comparing pound for pound. Most modern shoes have a wear indicator, either a 1/2 moon on the side or a V ( or may be a Y) groove in the center between the linings on one shoe. If either the half moon is gone or the V notch is down to the point the sided are vertical, time for new linings. Edited July 18 by Geoff Weeks 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I second GW... Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seyser Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 That's good advice! Pretty much confirmed my plan to start with new. I have a number of weeks until harvest so shouldn't be an issue to get it done. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 As already said above, new drums are cheap as are shoes On a new to me, second trailer like this I go a little further S cams out and check and clean all the old grease off, last thing I want is a brake dragging and starting a fire And since the slack adjuster is off pump new grease into into until the old grease stops coming out and really wind it around and around Dunno how this works with automatic slack adjusters, I have never owned one I use diesel every where while cleaning and reassembling everything this, it doesn't dry like normal cleaning products and I believe gives a longer lasting result The locking clamp/dog on the slack adjuster should snap back into locking posistion when done Anyway I'm sure have this Drums and shoes and cleaning things up and lubricating everything is pretty cheap compared to having a issue on the side of the road Oh and I fimd most axles are the same with different hubs for each manufacturer, Im sure they aren't, but most share the sameshoes and drums these days Old Fruehauf and McGrath trailers have different drums but most are pretty common Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said: As already said above, new drums are cheap as are shoes On a new to me, second trailer like this I go a little further S cams out and check and clean all the old grease off, last thing I want is a brake dragging and starting a fire And since the slack adjuster is off pump new grease into into until the old grease stops coming out and really wind it around and around Dunno how this works with automatic slack adjusters, I have never owned one I use diesel every where while cleaning and reassembling everything this, it doesn't dry like normal cleaning products and I believe gives a longer lasting result The locking clamp/dog on the slack adjuster should snap back into locking posistion when done Anyway I'm sure have this Drums and shoes and cleaning things up and lubricating everything is pretty cheap compared to having a issue on the side of the road Oh and I fimd most axles are the same with different hubs for each manufacturer, Im sure they aren't, but most share the sameshoes and drums these days Old Fruehauf and McGrath trailers have different drums but most are pretty common Paul Old Fruehauf, holy cow.. Propar, with the XEMs I feel old now Paul (TY) 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 propar, you sure.. XEM's you sure..? Looked like spicer, with 4515's.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 49 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: propar, you sure.. XEM's you sure..? Looked like spicer, with 4515's.. I think he was reacting to RMSMack's post about Propar and Frurhauf. It was why I said the 1st most likely was Rockwell, 2nd Eaton, but there were other possibilities (all this before pictures were posted. There still are some odd ball stuff on the road, and just when you think you'll never see another, it pops up. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 10-4 GW,, I guess the axle shaft didnt look to be 6'' O.D., and obviuosly not square,, like me,,, Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/17/2024 at 3:08 PM, seyser said: Thanks for the reply and all good information. Here are a few pics of the axles. Could we get a picture of the hub side? Are they double nut bud wheels? If it’s fruehauf some older stuff the studs hold the drums on! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 you want to see the hub cap. don't you,,FJH?? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seyser Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 spicer with Budd's.. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Joey Mack said: you want to see the hub cap. don't you,,FJH?? Yup there is the issue of fruehuaf brakes as well! Picture tells it all! 👍 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 All good there all good ole cheap parts ! when I got into this business q brakes were just starting to take. Over! From pin brakes mid 70s ! Don’t know how many p brake’s we converted to q but it was allot quite the in ovation at the time! Just same old same old now! I’m. Interested to see how disc brakes are going to do or if we will return to the past due to the expense! 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 4 hours ago, Joey Mack said: spicer with Budd's.. I would of called these Dana axles, thats what they are tagged in Australia Dana and Spicer I'm pretty sure are the same company I have been told that the U.S. axles dont have a bend in the middle for the road camber, the bend is noticeably to the naked eye as we have apparently fairly steep camber roads compared to the rest of the world Paul Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swishy Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 wot eye notice brake backing plate welded to axle May B 15" not 16.1/2" drum & shoes to suit or taller rubber & rims cya Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74351-identifying-a-trailer-axle/#findComment-555527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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