1947 ex-firetruck restoration

[mowerman]

Haha I can’t add anything this time 

[mrsmackpaul]

Yep Brocky is correct, that's a good plan 

I have no idea about a full restoration except that it is about 100 times more work then you ever think it is going to be 

Most full restorations end up in the scrap heap

They all start out with big plans and soon realize just how big and how much time and money is needed 

Get drivable and on the road and your more likely to keep it that way and just fix things as you can and enjoy driving it about 

 

Paul 

[70mackMB]

6 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Get drivable and on the road and your more likely to keep it that way and just fix things as you can and enjoy driving it about

That's what we did with the MB. The plans went from "Lets make it brand new" too, and there you have it. This is what a "Fifty year old freight truck looks like". l think it looked better as it was and told a story of it's history.    .....Hippy 

[mowerman]

That’s pretty much my plans get it mechanically sound do the body nose  and interior….. undercarriage I will pick at slowly after that if I live long enough, I will be driving it around and enjoying it… bob

[James Lythall]

Yeah Brocky, we do have a pretty good size shop to work in thankfully. But my dad left it as a big mess for me to clean up haha. Guess he didn't want to clean it himself haha. I feel like I would admire the truck more myself if I am able to say "I did that!" When it comes to the bed, I am thinking of kind of going the "farm truck" route. Make a nice wood flat bed with some wood railings on the sides. I love woodworking so that would be an extra bonus if I am able to do that. 

My main goal currently is to get the engine running and start inspecting the body work on the cab. Start putting the puzzle back together then see what goes from there. 

Sometimes I worry that I have challenged myself a little too much by fixing up the truck, but it will just take time. One of the most rewarding things will be to finally drive it. I have never seen the truck leave our shed. 

Question, I have driven old trucks that don't have power steering before. Our truck doesn't have power steering. I would like to somehow include power steering if I am able to. Any tips on doing that (eventually)? Jay Leno did something not too long ago where he took an old truck and had a electric power steering module installed into a truck. But it looked like a royal pain in the behind to do that. I know there are possibilities but I have no idea where to begin the search.

Also, the brake system. We have drum brakes all the way around, some of the drums are still in decent condition. Would it be best just to replace all the drums before I hook up the drivetrain? 

[mowerman]

not really necessary unless they are scored beyond turning or cracked

[steve s.]

James if you are able to keep this discussion going, it will be a good motivational tool for you. You already have the attention of old Mack fans from at least two continents, and knowing that we will be waiting for updates from you should help you keep going on your project.  Most old Macks like yours  steer pretty well the way they were built. I don't believe that power steering was even an option. Of course you will make sure that all of the joints on your front end are free and well lubricated. With the relatively light 330 Continental engine, you may find that there is no need for power steering.  Maybe you'll have to work a bit at low speeds or in tight spaces, but the original system will probably be very good going down the road. Of course PS can be added if and when you choose to. Probably your best bet would be the linkage type assist that attached between the front axle and the tie rod. That would allow you to keep your original steering box and avoid a lot of potential clearance issues. Adding power steering can be done, but you will have to be the designer, engineer, and fabricator, not to mention the test pilot.

[mowerman]

I was gonna mention the same thing you might find that it’s not very hard to steer at all. I’ve driven many big rigs, full-size manual, steering that weren’t very hard to steer at all. Mack’s whites As he says, it’s going to be a big headache to install one and you probably really don’t even need it

[Brocky]

You said your Dad had restored the Chassis.. Did he leave any records of what he had done??? Depending on how long it has sat you will probably want to pull the wheels and inspect the bearings. At the same time inspect the drums as there is a possibility your Dad has already crossed that bridge?? If it has air brakes you can inspect the drums with a jack and a flashlight.

Edited November 19 by Brocky

[mowerman]

Also check your kingpins for grease and any play

[cruiseliner64]

Yes keep posting it'll keep you going at the restoration and help get through the days when nothing seems to be going well.as steve.s said you have the attention of old Mack fans around the world.keep up the good work you have started.

Paul

[Brocky]

56 minutes ago, cruiseliner64 said:

Yes keep posting it'll keep you going at the restoration and help get through the days when nothing seems to be going well.as steve.s said you have the attention of old Mack fans around the world.keep up the good work you have started.

Paul

And add some more pictures!! Especially after you get the chassis uncovered, so we can see what your Dad has done.

[James Lythall]

Good to know that adding power steering doesn't really matter. That makes perfect sense. 

Don't worry, I will do my best to stay active on here as much as I am able to! It may take me a couple of weeks to really do much besides clean up our shed a bit more so I have workspace. You are all so fantastic. I wish I could give all of you a big hug! 

Brocky, sorry I have a tendency to leave out small details. So my dad took the chassis to a place to get it restored. I have a paper of everything that they did. Most of it is gibberish to me. The rims and brakes have not been restored yet. They are still the originals. The truck has sat in our shed for over 20 years so a lot of things will need to be gone through. I'm not sure if it has air brakes or not. Is there a pretty easy way I could tell? 

Would anyone happen to know if our truck would have had a wooden floorboard? I have been searching for a metal one but I haven't seen one. I have found some wood on the truck so I am wondering if it was wood or metal.

Here are some more pictures. These ones are current, I took them today. Some of the other pics I posted are a couple months old (not much has changed since then but hopefully these will help). Sorry our shed is so messy, I am working on it I promise. The one funky picture is of the front drum brake

 

 

[mrsmackpaul]

Well the frobt brakes are missing, or most of the bits are, I bet there in the shed there, just gotta find them 

 

Paul

[cruiseliner64]

James,dont worry about the state of the shop.most shops get untidy at times.the chassis looks well restored and painted.the cab looks solid..much much worse has been restored.....pictures help get problems solved.good luck its a lovely project.

Paul

[Brocky]

James, From the left front picture I can see the clutch and brake pedals and it looks like you have hydraulic brakes possibly with a hydrovac booster unit??.. You will know more when you find the backing plates. If so this this will give you the opportunity to engineer / install a modern power brake unit with dual master cylinders. That cab looks in great shape so your body work will be mostly sanding and painting. I hate to say it, BUT right now your biggest project is cleaning out the shop and finding all the parts you can so you can take an inventory of what you will need.

Edited November 19 by Brocky

[Geoff Weeks]

Coupla things to add, In that vintage you can't look at the pedals and tell if it was air or hydraulic brakes. The air brakes were often controlled by a rod from the pedal. This allowed  mfg to use the same pedal on air and hydraulic braked trucks.

 I could try and get a picture on my Dart set up it uses the rod for air brakes, but just the same you'd have to look to be sure. However the lack of visible compressor on the engine make hydraulic likely.

Drums: inspect the drums carefully as it is unlikely to find replacements still made. NOS or expensive repairs made by pressing in a steel band to restore the drums if they are shot can make a big difference on how you proceed. 

 Worn drums or other parts that are NLA may even dictate a axle swap is in your future, unless parts can be found. 

 In the early years hydraulic brakes were used on much heavier trucks than they are today, air brakes were new and an expensive option that wasn't often opted for unless semi trailers were going to be towed, and sometimes not even then.

I once saw a 40K GVW tandem axle Loadstar on juice brakes!  Vacuum PDL! 

[mowerman]

My god that cab looks like it doesn’t need anything but primer and paint that’s 90% of your issues. Usually you got it whooped bud. A lot of us pretty much have to rebuild the bottom of any cab And doors wow

[James Lythall]

A lot of the pieces for the truck are sitting in some boxes right now. I have started to go through it and try to figure out what some of the things are. My dad was able to label some of the pieces a couple years ago, so that will help a bit. I do have the backing plate for the brakes, that has been restored. It would make sense to me that the brakes would just by hydraulic. 

Good to know that trying to get new drums could be a royal pain in the behind. Theoretically speaking, you could take the brakes off of some bigger trucks from today right? Like the bigger F-450's or something like that couldn't you? Theoretically of course.

The cab is in really good shape for the most part. On the passenger door, there is a big deep rust patch that is almost half the size of the door. Other than that it is pretty good. Just go over it gently with some sandpaper, then she's ready to be painted. I think the hardest part for the interior will be the seats. The seats are worn and pretty beat up. shouldn't be too difficult to find someone who would be able to make new ones, out of the ones we have. And yes keeping the bench seats, it would be a crime if I didn't. 

Brocky, you mentioned the clutch and brake pedals. I have been trying to figure out which pedals those are. I did find a pedal in a box, which I am assuming is the gas pedal. You are right that the toughest part right now will be cleaning up the shop. My dad loved to accumulate things and then do nothing with them. I have been working on cleaning up the shop for almost a year now. And then I got my dads bad habit of accumulating things. Guess it is hereditary! Thankfully my dad took pictures of the engine all intact so I have something to go off of. My mum said that there are more pictures somewhere, just need to find them too.

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Up until the late 50's early 60's when the more common treadle valve came into being, this was what was used. 

I tried to get a photo of my Dart (early 50's) but couldn't

This is from a military air brake manual

 

[steve s.]

To answer your question James yes, modern brakes could be adapted to your truck. But it also could become an even bigger task than adding power steering. And again that is something you could do further down the road if you choose to. I would guess that since your Mack was originally a fire truck it probably has had a fairly easy life with few miles, and not many heavy loads. Your brake drums are probably fine. When in good operating order the original brake system will do everything you need it to do. 

[Brocky]

When you find the backing plates and shoes lay them on the floor and send us some pictures... We will be better able to help you make decisions.

[Geoff Weeks]

If the front lugs are 1/2", the nuts are still available last time I looked, but the bolts are not. They are a special bolt and are  held in the spoke with a cotter pin.  I think the 5/8" of the same style are still available IIRC.

 So be very careful removing the nuts not to snap the bolts. 

[yarnall]

My father has a 1941 Type 45 if you need photos of anything.  His has the open cab.  The drive train would be identical.  I can’t imagine Mack ever made a Type 45 with air brakes. 
 

[Brocky]

James, Please read thru this topic. Matt is very inspirational..

 

 

Edited November 20 by Brocky