Separate the frame and bogies

[hicrop10]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

On this setup I believe the crossmember inside the tandem unbolts I have a truck with this setup, but I've never pulled it apart.  Trunnion bar underneath has bolt on caps underneath, so depending on what you're trying to accomplish you probably have a few options.  You could unbolts the trunnion bar caps and lift the truck off the suspension/tears.  Whatever you're thinking it requires lots of room and big toys to get this job done, everything is heavy!!!

JoeH,doing it your way the a frames as I call them will stay attached to the frame rails,my way the a frames stay attached to the rears.I’m thinking it may be easier my way.

[Joey Mack]

I Have never done the A-Frame in the model truck that you have.  But have pulled a couple dozen of the later style.  I would remove the cross members, bump stops and any small bolt ons like air valves and such to create a smooth inner frame rail.  I would have the truck frame on stands of course at a level where the springs were somewhat relaxed, tires on the ground.  have a couple long 1x4's to put under the wheels in the case the A-Frame drags on the lower frame flange. Then spread the frame with a porta-power.  I would even spray the inner rails with penatrating oil to get a little help rolling out. of course in your case, you may not want any oils on the frame.. Impressive effort on your part, to get a quality paint job..  Jojo

[JoeH]

8 hours ago, hicrop10 said:

JoeH,doing it your way the a frames as I call them will stay attached to the frame rails,my way the a frames stay attached to the rears.I’m thinking it may be easier my way.

This style camelback captivates the outside of the frames, lighter camelbacks captivate the inside of the frame rails.  So you'll have to disassemble the cross member to allow the rails to squeeze in away from those massive ears that the frame bolts to.

[Joseph Cummings]

Those are all "body bound bolts" They have a shank that is larger than the threads. When you install them you ream the hole to tightly fit the shank of the bolt. That way the bolt also acts like a dowl pin. They don't come out easy. You are not going to spin the bolts. You have to spin the nuts off and then drive them out. Most times they get damaged while being driven out.

When you get new bolts the shank diameter and shank length are important. There are larger diameter shanks available because if you are swapping parts around you will need to ream the holes oversized and instal the larger OD bolts. Being you are using the same parts on the same frame rails, you won't have to ream the holes unless something gets damaged. 

I swear I met you. Did you stop around Eugene Evans shop with Tom Zacny? Or maybe with Thackray or Joe Capecci?

Edited 18 hours ago by Joseph Cummings
picture

[Joseph Cummings]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said:

Those are all "body bound bolts" They have a shank that is larger than the threads. When you install them you ream the hole to tightly fit the shank of the bolt. That way the bolt also acts like a dowl pin. They don't come out easy. You are not going to spin the bolts. You have to spin the nuts off and then drive them out. Most times they get damaged while being driven out.

When you get new bolts the shank diameter and shank length are important. There are larger diameter shanks available because if you are swapping parts around you will need to ream the holes oversized and instal the larger OD bolts. Being you are using the same parts on the same frame rails, you won't have to ream the holes unless something gets damaged. 

I swear I met you. Did you stop around Eugene Evans shop with Tom Zacny? Or maybe with Thackray or Joe Capecci?

 

[MACKS]

One thing for sure that truck has some clean rails,did it spend its life down South?

[hicrop10]

1 hour ago, MACKS said:

One thing for sure that truck has some clean rails,did it spend its life down South?

No it spent it life here in Philadelphia.It was always parked inside the first 20 years or so.

[mechohaulic]

10 hours ago, Joseph Cummings said:

Those are all "body bound bolts" They have a shank that is larger than the threads. When you install them you ream the hole to tightly fit the shank of the bolt. That way the bolt also acts like a dowl pin. They don't come out easy. You are not going to spin the bolts. You have to spin the nuts off and then drive them out. Most times they get damaged while being driven out.

When you get new bolts the shank diameter and shank length are important. There are larger diameter shanks available because if you are swapping parts around you will need to ream the holes oversized and instal the larger OD bolts. Being you are using the same parts on the same frame rails, you won't have to ream the holes unless something gets damaged. 

I swear I met you. Did you stop around Eugene Evans shop with Tom Zacny? Or maybe with Thackray or Joe Capecci?

have lucked out removing the body bound bolts by removing the nylon lock nuts and washers; install a basic nut (5/8 -or 3/4 fine thread) fully on bolt than a B F sledge hammer rail the bolt. once it starts to move loosen nut keep hammering. brass round stock to finish removal. less chance of bolt damage. this technic is for days gone by when parts were reused not just thrown away and new installed.

[Joey Mack]

Mech,  woould ou believe me if I told you that when I started fixing Macks only 25 years ago, that My mentor taught me about body bound bolts, and in years past, when I suggest using body bound bolts I get funny faces because they dont know about them, and then I hear, well I will just use grade 8 bolts, then I try to explain how the shoulder of the body bound bolt works.. I just had this convo, 2 months ago with 2 co-workers who were putting a steel flat bed on an F-450 with a gooseneck ball in it. The know -it-all guy said it wasnt neccesary.   anyway,  we'll see if the bed loosens up, the owner pulls 15,000 pounds with it.. 

[mechohaulic]

a project that small using a GOOD grade 8 bolt would be acceptable. trunnion bolts defiantly body bound needed. 

[Joey Mack]

I guess my point to them was a tight fit so the bed would'nt loosen up, and shear the bolts off..  

Edited 6 hours ago by Joey Mack
Pour sperring

[Joseph Cummings]

1 hour ago, mechohaulic said:

have lucked out removing the body bound bolts by removing the nylon lock nuts and washers; install a basic nut (5/8 -or 3/4 fine thread) fully on bolt than a B F sledge hammer rail the bolt. once it starts to move loosen nut keep hammering. brass round stock to finish removal. less chance of bolt damage. this technic is for days gone by when parts were reused not just thrown away and new installed.

Yeah, well I go back just shy of 50 years doing this full time and I remember getting them out and saving them or at least most of them, but older trucks that are run here in the northeast, and especially double frame trucks can be really stuck. But shop labor worth a lot of money anymore, so I just figure on buying new bolts if I have to do one. I'm up in Hazleton Pa and when you remove a mack trunnion in a double frame truck, bolts are usually the least of your worries, the damn rust jacking is your big worry.

[Mark T]

Most anything still serviceable is way past body bound bolts and well into the huckbolt era. I remember my first exposure to body bound bolts. Guy thought it was funny watching me cut the head off with a torch and trying to drive it through the frame.  

[hicrop10]

3 hours ago, Joseph Cummings said:

Yeah, well I go back just shy of 50 years doing this full time and I remember getting them out and saving them or at least most of them, but older trucks that are run here in the northeast, and especially double frame trucks can be really stuck. But shop labor worth a lot of money anymore, so I just figure on buying new bolts if I have to do one. I'm up in Hazleton Pa and when you remove a mack trunnion in a double frame truck, bolts are usually the least of your worries, the damn rust jacking is your big worry.

Joe,reading what you have said makes me rethink about doing this job.I really don’t have to do it,it would just make the paint that much better.You mentioned double frame trucks well mine is triple frame,so I can just think of the headaches I may be getting into.I was going to paint the frame and rearend myself and have a real painter do the cab,hood,fenders and all the stuff that you’ll see.Going to see a fellow that I may have do the frame,he has a big paint booth.It’s not that I’m afraid of hard work or just heavy lifting it’s that I had a heart attack a year ago and dealing with kidney stones and passing blood.Doc doesn’t want me to be doing any lifting.That the good thing of having my shop not at the house,between my wife and daughter I don’t know who’s worse.I will keep you all posted.

[Joseph Cummings]

4 minutes ago, hicrop10 said:

Joe,reading what you have said makes me rethink about doing this job.I really don’t have to do it,it would just make the paint that much better.You mentioned double frame trucks well mine is triple frame,so I can just think of the headaches I may be getting into.I was going to paint the frame and rearend myself and have a real painter do the cab,hood,fenders and all the stuff that you’ll see.Going to see a fellow that I may have do the frame,he has a big paint booth.It’s not that I’m afraid of hard work or just heavy lifting it’s that I had a heart attack a year ago and dealing with kidney stones and passing blood.Doc doesn’t want me to be doing any lifting.That the good thing of having my shop not at the house,between my wife and daughter I don’t know who’s worse.I will keep you all posted.

,Yeah the frame on your truck really looked good especially. considering its age. Joe Capecci had some triple frame B Models behind his place on Church St near Sepviva. One had the L cab on it and he was still running it in about 1990. There were some without anything on the back because Liberty Concrete actually owned all the barrels and Joe owned the trucks. I'm not sure where they ended up when he sold the property. 

I'm no youngster either. I was climbing down off of a machine and my foot caught the base of a pump that was mounted to the floor. I felt a pop, and it felt like I stepped on a spike or something but there was nothing in my boot. I tried to walk up a staircase to get to the other side of the machine and I couldn't do it. Turns out I completely tore my Achilles tendon so now I hobble like an old man. So mechanical projects are tough on me too. Be nice if I could hare a decent kid lol