Freightrain Posted November 24 Share Posted November 24 How easy to get? Part number? Someone have one laying around close to NE Ohio? I need to change out my single disc flywheel so I can upgrade my transmission. I have a flywheel already. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted November 24 Share Posted November 24 I have one I think it's on a 711 not sure it's the same but it did have a twin disc push type clutch and the starter is on the right, I am quite a good distance from NE Ohio in western NC Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 24 Author Share Posted November 24 Interesting. I'm not versed in all this so it seems strange it was a twin disc? My 237 came from a fire truck and was a single disc. I want to upgrade so I can put a 13 spd in it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 24 Share Posted November 24 Larry, I think you'll want a pull clutch, but I have no idea if the bells are the same or not. Are you looking at an Eaton or other mfg trans or a Mack? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 Eaton Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 (edited) They can be made for a push clutch, but then you loose the clutch brake. Is the bell you have now made to SAE spec's? If so, I think you can use the single disk set-up with a push front bearing retainer on the trans. That would have to be "special ordered" as very few use a push clutch. The Bell on my 9 speed has the holes below the input shaft for a push clutch yoke. Edited November 25 by Geoff Weeks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 (edited) https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=426&groupID=799 https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=426&groupID=937 Choice of 2" or 1 3/4" shaft https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=588&groupID=916 Edited November 25 by Geoff Weeks add 1 3/4"shaft Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 3 hours ago, D-Day said: I have one I think it's on a 711 not sure it's the same but it did have a twin disc push type clutch and the starter is on the right, I am quite a good distance from NE Ohio in western NC Some of the later triplex and quads came with a twin disc push clutch terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 28 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said: They can be made for a push clutch, but then you loose the clutch brake. Is the bell you have now made to SAE spec's? If so, I think you can use the single disk set-up with a push front bearing retainer on the trans. That would have to be "special ordered" as very few use a push clutch. The Bell on my 9 speed has the holes below the input shaft for a push clutch yoke. They made a clutch brake for a mack push clutch, it had a lever that went down and pushed a disc against the counter shaft. Terry 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 Heck, If I could just use my single push and get a shorter input for a 13 spd that would make things a HUGE amount easier. It would be a bolt in. I have a 2" input currently. Only reason is my triplex is just gone and want something that is smooth, quiet and stays in gear. I just need to find a box that has side mounts for a Mack application. I could even live with a 10 spd if I had to. Just needs OD. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 I have always thought the flywheel housing depth was the same it was the bell housing and input shaft that changed in dimension for single or double plate clutch but I can measure it there are a couple of old 13 speed road rangers here small size with air actuated clutch brake they had a little push button on the shifter the bell housing and input shaft is where it gets tricky to locate the right input shaft length and bell housing depth with Mack side mounts 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 11 hours ago, terry said: They made a clutch brake for a mack push clutch, it had a lever that went down and pushed a disc against the counter shaft. Terry They made one for the RR also that had an air cyl that pushed against the side of the PTO gear, but they're long out of production. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 8 hours ago, D-Day said: I have always thought the flywheel housing depth was the same it was the bell housing and input shaft that changed in dimension for single or double plate clutch but I can measure it there are a couple of old 13 speed road rangers here small size with air actuated clutch brake they had a little push button on the shifter the bell housing and input shaft is where it gets tricky to locate the right input shaft length and bell housing depth with Mack side mounts I thought, but never verified, that the SAE spec meant that the input shaft length and depth to crankshaft was part of the spec regardless of what flywheel and clutch was used. The input shaft for push clutches are different than the one for pull clutches, I know. I don't think the length changes though. After all the pilot bearing sits against the crank, and the spline on the shaft runs up to the pilot. The difference is at the bearing retainer end, the shaft has to run through the tube on the retainer that carries the throw-out bearing. Eaton's can be had with nodel mounts on the trans 1/2 of the bell, Volvo also used that arrangement. Having said all that, I have never seen a Eaton with a push clutch. However, you are going to need the push clutch shaft and bearing retainer regardless, if you have the trans already, then I would buy the shaft and bearing retainer and measure and compare to the trans you have now. You still need a Nodal mount trans half of the bell, but they should be out there, I know the Volvo/White/GMC (early 80's) used that as one place I worked had 2 of them, and I put clutches in them, and remember it was a pain having to support the rear of the engine while I did so. I think it would make life simpler not having to re design the whole clutch and linkage. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 (edited) FYI, I get a few hits for the push clutch bearing retainer (around $200) but almost nothing for the 2" push clutch shaft. If your serious, I would start looking for the shaft before going further down this road. S-1129 or S 1129a Did a little more searching and found alternate FBC and input shaft. Don't know the difference but both seam more available S 1660 & 20549 for part numbers I think I found the difference between the 1st set of numbers and the 2nd set. The 1st set uses a rubber seal on the input shaft and can be driven in either direction. The 2nd set uses a "screw seal" like the pull clutches and can only be turned in the conventional direction Edited November 25 by Geoff Weeks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 I made a lot of assumptions when I started this. I assumed that the deeper flywheel would need a deeper housing? When I started this 237 using a dual disc flywheel, it stuck out the end of housing about an inch. I assumed it would deep a deeper housing. I'm wrong? That saves a lot of messing around(removing and dialing in new one). Can someone measure their Mack flywheel housing and I can compare it. Mine has lower right starter, like a B model so I assumed it might be incorrect. I think most R models are upper left? Or maybe this is just another quirk of it being from a fire engine? The more times I get into finding information about this, the more I learn that I don't know much. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 I'd start by looking up what the SAE housings and flywheel standard covers. You might be pleasantly surprised. The whole idea was if it was standardized, then anything that fit a #1 housing had to have the same mounting depth etc. The only push clutch I have dealt with was SAE #2. I'm assuming yours is #1. Getting the right Eaton half of the Bell with the nodal mount may be the hardest thing to find, as input shafts and bearing retainers are often changed as a matter of course when a clutch job is done. A internet search had a few hits from the common suppliers. I never saw the point in replacing parts that weren't worn beyond service ability, but my clutches often lasted until the engine had to come out for some other reason. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 This flywheel housing measures 5 7/8 for over all depth and the triplex here the bell housing measures about 8 1/4 also the input shaft protrusion is 3 and 1/2 inches beyond the bell housing you can also see how far the flywheel is protruding 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 Ok. My flywheel housing is about 6" ish. The transmission Bell housing is 6 1/4". You mentioned #1 SAE. But mine has 3/8" bolts like a #2?? So, the flywheel bells are the same, it is only the transmission side that is deeper. My dual disc flywheel stuck out about 1" from housing. I assumed that would be wrong. Guess not? You can see it near the end of my start up video. https://youtu.be/dkojHq2QnyI?si=I_sGrLVA3SuGBH-D Awesome, thank you for clearing that up. This gives me better insight on what needs to happen. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 Old #1 used 3/8" bolts (something Iearned about the hard way) at some point they switched to 7/16 threaded holes but all other dimensions remain the same. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 You can put washers on the 3/8" bolts when putting them through a trans side bell with 7/16" hole. The bolts don't center the bell, the ring on the inside does, so the "slop" makes no difference in alignment. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 Ok, so now it is all about the transmission Bell housing and trying to find a 13 spd with transmission mounts on the side of the box. Apparently they did offer it because they did come in R models. Finding that case may be hens teeth. If the Bell housing has mounts built in, it is not needed. Ya, I was thinking the same thing. Or come up with 3/8" shoulder bolts that have 7/16 shoulder and use them. Not a real concern though. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted November 25 Author Share Posted November 25 So, if I start to research a 13 spd, try to locate one with side mounts. Then work on #1 bell with push clutch? Or parts for such. I can convert my linkage to pull, I have the technology....a lathe and a welder. Heck find me a fresh rebuilt triplex and I would be just as happy. I could try to rebuild mine, I heard most all bearings are available but if there is gear or slider issues I will be in a bad way finding parts. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 I know the 1st gen Volvo/White conventionals used nodal mount with pads for engine mounts on the trans half of the bell housing. A 4 bolt pad on each side not exactly vertical to which mounts were bolted. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 (edited) Is yours #2 or #1? Measure 1st, there are plenty of drawings on the internet that show the measurements for the SAE bells. Eaton uses the same trans bell for push and pull, there are two sets of holes for the cross shaft an bushings. Top set are for pull, bottom for push. edit: this seams only to be true of "replacement" housings, original can be one or the other or both. Bells are the same for all the older -6 and down roadrangers, the lighter rated ones tended to be aluminum, the heavier rated ones tended to iron. So, in other word a RT11609 would likely be found with an aluminum bell but a RT14609 would be more likely to have an iron bell, but you could interchange them. I have an aluminum R/R bell but doesn't have the nodal mount you need, otherwise it would be yours. The trans can be switch from push to pull or visa versa by changing the input shaft and front bearing retainer. Edited November 25 by Geoff Weeks Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 This is what you need I think: https://www.vanderhaags.com/detailview.php?part=25092981 Wait, that one doesn't seam to have the lower cross shaft holes, They have a few that are both but most are pull only. What is confusing is the replacement are all set up for either, but I guess the OEM are one or the other. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74791-flywheel-housing-for-2v/#findComment-562634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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