Flywheel housing for 2v.

[Freightrain]

How easy to get?  Part number? 

Someone have one laying around close to NE Ohio?

I need to change out my single disc flywheel so I can upgrade my transmission.  I have a flywheel already.

[D-Day]

I have one I think it's on a 711 not sure it's the same but it did have a twin disc push type clutch and the starter is on the right, I am quite a good distance from NE Ohio in western NC

[Freightrain]

Interesting.  I'm not versed in all this so it seems strange it was a twin disc?  My 237 came from a fire truck and was a single disc.  I want to upgrade so I can put a 13 spd in it.

[Geoff Weeks]

Larry, I think you'll want a pull clutch, but I have no idea if the bells are the same or not.

Are you looking at an Eaton or other mfg trans or a Mack?

[Freightrain]

Eaton

[Geoff Weeks]

They can be made for a push clutch, but then you loose the clutch brake. 

Is the bell you have now made to SAE spec's?  If so, I think you can use the single disk set-up with a push front bearing retainer on the trans. That would have to be "special ordered" as very few use a push clutch.

The Bell on my 9 speed has the holes below the input shaft for a push clutch yoke.

Edited 21 hours ago by Geoff Weeks

[Geoff Weeks]

https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=426&groupID=799

https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=426&groupID=937

Choice of 2" or 1 3/4" shaft

https://www.inforanger.roadranger.com/index.aspx?modelID=588&groupID=916

Edited 21 hours ago by Geoff Weeks
add 1 3/4"shaft

[terry]

3 hours ago, D-Day said:

I have one I think it's on a 711 not sure it's the same but it did have a twin disc push type clutch and the starter is on the right, I am quite a good distance from NE Ohio in western NC

Some of the later triplex and quads came with a twin disc push clutch terry

[terry]

28 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

They can be made for a push clutch, but then you loose the clutch brake. 

Is the bell you have now made to SAE spec's?  If so, I think you can use the single disk set-up with a push front bearing retainer on the trans. That would have to be "special ordered" as very few use a push clutch.

The Bell on my 9 speed has the holes below the input shaft for a push clutch yoke.

They made a clutch brake for a mack push clutch, it had a lever that went down and pushed a disc against the counter shaft.  Terry 

[Freightrain]

Heck, If I could just use my single push and get a shorter input for a 13 spd that would make things a HUGE amount easier.  It would be a bolt in.  I have a 2" input currently.

Only reason is my triplex is just gone and want something that is smooth, quiet and stays in gear.

I just need to find a box that has side mounts for a Mack application.  I could even live with a 10 spd if I had to.  Just needs OD.

[D-Day]

I have always thought the flywheel housing depth was the same it was the bell housing and input shaft that changed in dimension for single or double plate clutch but I can measure it there are a couple of old 13 speed road rangers here small size with air actuated clutch brake they had a little push button on the shifter the bell housing and input shaft is where it gets tricky to locate the right input shaft length and bell housing depth with Mack side mounts

[Geoff Weeks]

11 hours ago, terry said:

They made a clutch brake for a mack push clutch, it had a lever that went down and pushed a disc against the counter shaft.  Terry 

They made one for the RR also that had an air cyl that pushed against the side of the PTO gear, but they're long out of production.

 

[Geoff Weeks]

8 hours ago, D-Day said:

I have always thought the flywheel housing depth was the same it was the bell housing and input shaft that changed in dimension for single or double plate clutch but I can measure it there are a couple of old 13 speed road rangers here small size with air actuated clutch brake they had a little push button on the shifter the bell housing and input shaft is where it gets tricky to locate the right input shaft length and bell housing depth with Mack side mounts

I thought, but never verified, that the SAE spec meant that the input shaft length and depth to crankshaft was part of the spec regardless of what flywheel and clutch was used. 

The input shaft for push clutches are different than the one for pull clutches, I know. I don't think the length changes though. After all the pilot bearing sits against the crank, and the spline on the shaft runs up to the pilot. The difference is at the bearing retainer end, the shaft has to run through the tube on the retainer that carries the throw-out bearing.

Eaton's can be had with nodel mounts on the trans 1/2 of the bell, Volvo also used that arrangement.

Having said all that, I have never seen a Eaton with a push clutch. However, you are going to need the push clutch shaft and bearing retainer regardless, if you have the trans already, then I would buy the shaft and bearing retainer and measure and compare to the trans you have now.

 You still need a Nodal mount trans half of the bell, but they should be out there, I know the Volvo/White/GMC  (early 80's) used that as one place I worked had 2 of them, and I put clutches in them, and remember it was a pain having to support the rear of the engine while I did so.

I think it would make life simpler not having to re design the whole clutch and linkage.

[Geoff Weeks]

FYI, I get a few hits for the push clutch bearing retainer (around $200) but almost nothing for the 2" push clutch shaft.

If your serious, I would start looking for the shaft before going further down this road. S-1129 or S 1129a

Did a little more searching and found alternate FBC and input shaft. Don't know the difference but both seam more available 

S 1660 & 20549 for part numbers

I think I found the difference between the 1st set of numbers and the 2nd set. The 1st set uses a rubber seal on the input shaft and can be driven in either direction.

The 2nd set uses a "screw seal" like the pull clutches and can only be turned in the conventional direction

Edited 7 hours ago by Geoff Weeks

[Freightrain]

I made a lot of assumptions when I started this.  I assumed that the deeper flywheel would need a deeper housing?  When I started this 237 using a dual disc flywheel, it stuck out the end of housing about an inch.  I assumed it would deep a deeper housing.  I'm wrong?  That saves a lot of messing around(removing and dialing in new one).

Can someone measure their Mack flywheel housing and I can compare it.  Mine has lower right starter, like a B model so I assumed it might be incorrect.  I think most R models are upper left?  Or maybe this is just another quirk of it being from a fire engine?

 

The more times I get into finding information about this, the more I learn that I don't know much.

[Geoff Weeks]

I'd start by looking up what the SAE housings and flywheel standard covers. You might be pleasantly surprised. The whole idea was if it was standardized, then anything that fit a #1 housing had to have the same mounting depth etc.

The only push clutch I have dealt with was SAE #2. I'm assuming yours is #1.

Getting the right Eaton half of the Bell with the nodal mount may be the hardest thing to find, as input shafts and bearing retainers are often changed as a matter of course when a clutch job is done. A internet search had a few hits from the common suppliers. I never saw the point in replacing parts that weren't worn beyond service ability, but my clutches often lasted until the engine had to come out for some other reason.

[D-Day]

This flywheel housing measures 5 7/8 for over all depth and the triplex here the bell housing measures about 8 1/4 also the input shaft protrusion is 3 and 1/2 inches beyond the bell housing you can also see how far the flywheel is protruding 

[Freightrain]

Ok.  My flywheel housing is about 6" ish.  The transmission Bell housing is 6 1/4".

You mentioned #1 SAE.  But mine has 3/8" bolts like a #2??

So, the flywheel bells are the same, it is only the transmission side that is deeper. My dual disc flywheel stuck out about 1" from housing.  I assumed that would be wrong.  Guess not?  You can see it near the end of my start up video.

https://youtu.be/dkojHq2QnyI?si=I_sGrLVA3SuGBH-D

 

Awesome, thank you for clearing that up.  This gives me better insight on what needs to happen.  

[Geoff Weeks]

Old #1 used 3/8" bolts (something Iearned about the hard way) at some point they switched to 7/16 threaded holes but all other dimensions remain the same.

[Geoff Weeks]

You can put washers on the 3/8" bolts when putting them through a trans side bell with 7/16" hole. The bolts don't center the bell, the ring on the inside does, so the "slop" makes no difference in alignment.

[Freightrain]

Ok, so now it is all about the transmission Bell housing and trying to find a 13 spd with transmission mounts on the side of the box.  Apparently they did offer it because they did come in R models.  Finding that case may be hens teeth.  If the Bell housing has mounts built in, it is not needed.

 

Ya, I was thinking the same thing. Or come up with 3/8" shoulder bolts that have 7/16 shoulder and use them.  Not a real concern though.

[Freightrain]

So, if I start to research a 13 spd, try to locate one with side mounts.  Then work on #2 bell with push clutch?  Or parts for such.

I can convert my linkage to pull, I have the technology....a lathe and a welder.  

 

Heck find me a fresh rebuilt triplex and I would be just as happy.  I could try to rebuild mine, I heard most all bearings are available but if there is gear or slider issues I will be in a bad way finding parts.

[Geoff Weeks]

I know the 1st gen Volvo/White conventionals used nodal mount with pads for engine mounts on the trans half of the bell housing. A 4 bolt pad on each side not exactly vertical to which mounts were bolted.