Popular Post wingrider Posted November 27 Popular Post Share Posted November 27 (edited) Hello All! I introduced myself in the introduction forum, and decided to try and document my build of my 59 B61T. Let me fill you all in on what we are starting with….locally found a B61 that isn’t running, and no title. Hasn’t been on the road for a long time. She is pretty rusty. It had a steel flat bed on it, which got taken off before I looked at the truck. One of the straps broke, and it went sailing into the drivers door, breaking the only good piece of glass in it, and denting the door and mirror beyond fixing. I did get two other bare cabs with this deal that are in better shape, so I should be able to make one good out of the three. Also got a handful of B61 parts to help. My plan is to take the essence of a B61 and make it a little more modern. I also picked up a CH612 rolling chassis. Believe it is a 1999. No engine or transmission to be found in this, just air bags in the rear, and a 5th wheel plate. Did get two fuel tanks that appear to be in good shape. Rear tires are flat, and junk. Debating putting super singles on the rear of her, neighbor of mine is gently pushing me that direction. So, newer engine and transmission in the CH frame, with older cab fixed up on top. I am certain I will have a lot of questions along the way. Edited November 27 by wingrider 2 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 (edited) Here are some pictures of the frame…first one is at my place, others are at the previous owner, which also had the B61. Edited November 27 by wingrider 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 (edited) I suppose I should give a little background on myself. I am a healthcare worker, Respiratory Therapist to be exact. Pretty much self taught shade tree mechanic that works on almost anything. Seem to focus on motorcycles and tractors. Have had quite a few diesel powered vehicles. Always wanted a “big” truck and have always liked the looks of the old Mack’s. I do have some questions right off the top of my head…and I know some of these are very loaded questions, as many opinions could be had. - What engine should I use? Not afraid to extend hood if needed to fit something a little bigger. Can be Mack engine, or some other manufacturer. - What transmission? Love the idea of twin sticks, but if the wife is going to ever drive it, needs to be a little more simple, but not an automatic. The rear end in the CH is a 3.91 ratio. Want this truck to cruise at highway speeds of today. - What offset would you do with the super single wheels? - I also received three 22.5 Alcoa aluminum rims...I plan to run them on the front. I have heard I may need longer wheel studs vs running steel. Is this correct? I know there are more, but I will have to think about what they are. Thanks for any help! Edited November 27 by wingrider Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 What engine are you using? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 with a 3.91 rear axle, you should have no problem maintaining highway speeds. the 2020 kenworth t880 with 4.10 gears will roll 80 mph if you want it to. 1 Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Trans and rear need to be considered together. Total overall ratio is what is important. If it is a hobby truck, then start ability under load is not a big deal. It looks to have some form of front loader rear gear, so not likely hard to find other ratios. 4.10 with a .73 on 20" rubber will top out at 80 easy. 3.91 a bit faster. 3.70 or there abouts with a .83 OD will do the same If the trans is direct in top you want 3.54 or less for the rear. going to 11 x24.5 shift the numbers a little but not much Trucks, and old trucks in general should have duels not SS in my opinion, but that is just an opinion. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 (edited) 9 hours ago, Joseph Cummings said: What engine are you using? I do not know yet what I will be using...I plan to get the original engine out the B running, but it won't be going into the final product. This truck is going to certainly be a hobby rig...Just something cool to pull my old tractors around all together. I originally thought the same of having duals in the back, but my neighbor can be convincing in some conversations. 😁 Edited November 27 by wingrider Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 I'll freely admit I like old stuff old. My advice to you is since this is your first "at bat" with a semi sized/type vehicle that if the original engine can be made runable, then go with that, at least at 1st. There are many reasons, but top of the list is it fits and doesn't require any changes. 2nd it lets you get a feel for the truck. No point wrestling a 3406 into the truck to find you can't cool it. I modified every semi I ever owned, but only after putting some seat time in to find what works and what could be improved. You can always come back later and make changes. I know of more than one vehicle that has never been finished because the owner keeps making changes to his original project, some because the original plan was not practical others because he wanted to make it "better" without ever finding out if it was good enough already. My take on Super Singles is: they can cut a very little rolling resistance on a loaded truck that puts 100,000 miles or more a year on, but have serious drawbacks that I found outweighed the benefits many time over. duels allow the same rim/tire front to back. Duels allow you to "limp"off the road when one fails tires are much cheaper rims are much cheaper duels are much easier to handle, change and lift/postion. If loaded when you have a blow-out on a Super Single it most times take the rim with it before you can get stopped. Now your looking at a $1500 or more tire change before including the road service call. SS are too big, heavy and expensive to carry as a spare. Given all the above, I ran duels, but more than that, they look right on an old truck, SS are a new thing. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 (edited) Thank you for that bit of advice...I have to admit, I am more like the one to change on the fly than finish it with one of my bikes...it just never gets done, but a lot of work goes into it. I did do some basic research on the SS, the drawbacks, and the benefits. Appreciate your thoughts on it. Being I am putting aluminum front wheels on it, I could probably go either way in the rear. Edited November 27 by wingrider Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 One of the reasons I was planning on putting a different engine in is so I could use one of these switches. 😁 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Oh boy, one of "those boys". All my semi's had Jakes, either came with them or I added them, BUT all had mufflers. They were for holding the truck back at speed when descending, often with permit loads, not to make noise. Never had a problem even in "no Jake brake towns". Changing engine to be able to make noise, seams like buying a house so you can burn it to have a cook out! 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Yeah I never use my jake much either. I have a little hill in front of my shop, maybe 1000 feet long at most, guys jake down it with straight pipes all day long. Yeah it's a business district, but the speed limit is only 25. Me and the rest of the old timers here on the hill just shake our heads. They even jake down it empty. That being said, you can install a Jake on an END673, or even a Mack Dynatard if you change the cam 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 15 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said: Yeah I never use my jake much either. That being said, you can install a Jake on an END673, or even a Mack Dynatard if you change the cam Oh, I used mine a lot, descending grades, slowing to exit, etc. Years ago, I was in Boomtown, at night when I heard a 6-71 with jakes descending from Truckee. An ancient Freightliner cabover (round headlight) pull in next to me. His was also muffled, but no mistaking a 6-71 with a jake. Not something heard anymore. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 I've really only run local. Before I moved to Hazleton, I ran mostly Philly, NJ, NYC and in the suburbs . It's all pretty flat, And I'm not running through Manhattan and Center City Philly Jakeing like an idiot Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjc transport Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 My engine brake is always on once engine reaches 150 degrees And very rarely use the brakes. I can go from speed to 15 mph with engine brake without touching the brake pedal for a red light. 1 Quote when you are up to your armpits in alligators, it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp.. Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licensed to kill Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Hard to tell in the pics but the little bit if frame showing in the 3rd pic of the B61 show that frame to possibly be in pretty good shape, maybe as good or better than the CH frame. IMO, a lot easier to retrofit the air ride suspension to the B61 frame than the B61 cab to the CH frame (with the added bonus of the serial number on the door and frame matching when you are done. However, I suspect that the CH frame has a power steering box (and you probably want that) BUT, how will that line up with the B61 column?????, don’t know but probably not. There is a LOT to consider when doing acab swap like that, steering, clutch, cab mounts etc. however, when it comes to the clutch, a frame swap MIGHT solve a few issues depending on what you go with for a trans. The B61 uses a “push” style clutch where most (all?) newer trucks run a “pull” clutch so the linkage works in opposite directions. When I was gearing up to do my b61 project, I went through many of the same ponderings that you are. I settled on an E350 ( because the deal seemed right) but I think the typical 237 swap is probably the best choice. Would love to follow your progress hope you keep the thread going. Thanks for sharing 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 25 minutes ago, tjc transport said: My engine brake is always on once engine reaches 150 degrees And very rarely use the brakes. I can go from speed to 15 mph with engine brake without touching the brake pedal for a red light. You know when I started somewhere around 1980, we didn't really have Jake Brakes on anything. All the tractors were pretty bare bones ex Chemical Leaman and Matlack, 237, 5 speed, no power steering or AC. The dumps and roll off trucks were all DM600 227 6 speed, 55 rears and bare bones too. I really never had anything with a Jake until I was working as an O/O for McHugh Brothers and I had to move some stuff I needed their 4 axle Autocar for Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 8 minutes ago, Licensed to kill said: Hard to tell in the pics but the little bit if frame showing in the 3rd pic of the B61 show that frame to possibly be in pretty good shape, maybe as good or better than the CH frame. IMO, a lot easier to retrofit the air ride suspension to the B61 frame than the B61 cab to the CH frame (with the added bonus of the serial number on the door and frame matching when you are done. However, I suspect that the CH frame has a power steering box (and you probably want that) BUT, how will that line up with the B61 column?????, don’t know but probably not. There is a LOT to consider when doing acab swap like that, steering, clutch, cab mounts etc. however, when it comes to the clutch, a frame swap MIGHT solve a few issues depending on what you go with for a trans. The B61 uses a “push” style clutch where most (all?) newer trucks run a “pull” clutch so the linkage works in opposite directions. When I was gearing up to do my b61 project, I went through many of the same ponderings that you are. I settled on an E350 ( because the deal seemed right) but I think the typical 237 swap is probably the best choice. Would love to follow your progress hope you keep the thread going. Thanks for sharing I 100% agree. Cab swaps don't work out like they do in youtube videos. And those video guys never show how much of their poorly engineered modifications break when they are actually driven. The only thing I have a different opinion on is, Leave the end673 in it. Put some fuel to it and even though it's a 9 millimeter pump, it will make all the power you'll ever need 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 Thank you all for the help and suggestions. Funny enough, last night I was contemplating taking the front axle off the CH, and swapping it to the B chassis, and then cutting the CH frame, and put the air ride and a little more on the B as well. I do know this will probably be a better choice in the long run. Could I use the current engine/transmission setup with that high a geared rear end? Tell me more about adding exhaust brakes to the end673, I would certainly be interested in knowing more. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licensed to kill Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Couple things, first, the axle on the CH is likely 2” wider than the b61 axle and as such, will set the wheels too far out relative to the fenders. Of course, this is the same for the rear but the rear will not show the width difference like the front will and, I don’t know how you would mount the front axle to a narrower frame due to the way they are mounted. Regarding the rear, while cutting off the frame and grafting it to the b61 frame is a common route to take, I chose to mount the suspension to the b61 frame. Was not difficult to do and, IMO looks a lot better and less “cobbled” together. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 (edited) I kind of figured that the axle is wider, but haven't measured it yet to see how much. I would like to keep the power steering, but understand that it may need to be modified from the CH a bit to work with the B. Also want to keep the BUDD style hubs. I certainly will take that idea into consideration, but I do question if the CH frame is a little longer. Some time with a tape measure is in my future. Some warmer weather wouldn't hurt either, as these are both outside at the moment. Edited November 27 by wingrider Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licensed to kill Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Since I have just recently travelled this path (and am still on it), I will just share some of the things I did and how I did them just for some ideas for you to say “hey, that’s a good idea” or “ well that is stupid, I won’t be going that route”. Bear in mind that my project is still under construction so some of the directions I have taken are yet to be road tested. At any rate, here is my built thread thus far and I welcome any thoughts or ideas you may have. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 I am in no position to say anything is stupid when it comes to these...don't know enough about them. Always appreciate to see how someone else does it. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licensed to kill Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 Sorry, I just can remember how to attach the link (I HATE computers!!!!!!) Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingrider Posted November 27 Author Share Posted November 27 If nothing else, copy the link and just paste on here. I will figure it out from there. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74800-my-1959-b61t-restorationmodification-build-thread/#findComment-562783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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