What's it Worth?

[other dog]

Anybody remember the great bulldozer adventure? I went down to the N.C./S.C. line on rt.38 with an RGN trailer and picked up an Allis Chalmers bulldozer. The man I was picking it up for rode with me, as it was only supposed to be a day trip. But, you know how plans go sometimes. His brother was bringing the dozer up from S.C. and blew about 3 tires on his trailer before he got there with it. 

Anyhow, the brother called me yesterday and wanted to know what I thought the truck he brought it up there with might be worth. I told him I really didn't know, but I would ask around. He's in his 80s now and wants to sell his C500 Kenworth. He's not going to give it away, and isn't trying to get rich off it either, he just wanted to know about what to ask. 

It's a 1978, with 91,000 miles on it. It's really more of an off-road or heavy haul unit than an over the road tractor. It's pretty unique, and a real collector's item. He put a sleeper on it and it has an 855 Cummins in it. He said it was a 230 Cummins originally but he added a turbo and said it has around 275hp. now. 

I took these pictures when I picked up the bulldozer. This was in February, 2016.

Anybody have any thoughts about it? 

[Geoff Weeks]

No idea what it is worth, but love the spokes.

Those 15" trailer tires were known for problems. The tube stem is right against the 12" brake drum. Most switched to 17.5 and never looked back.

 Not surprised it popped a few.

[Mark T]

Boy, that's a hard thing to put a number on. If it still looks like in the pictures?  it'll have value to someone. Gonna have to advertise it.

[Joseph Cummings]

I'd go 5 or 6 thousand

[other dog]

1 hour ago, Mark T said:

Boy, that's a hard thing to put a number on. If it still looks like in the pictures?  it'll have value to someone. Gonna have to advertise it.

Yes, I don't know either. It probably still looks that good, I think all he did with it was haul his antique tractors to shows with it. I would think it has more value to a collector than to somebody looking to put it to work. I told him he should call the Keystone Antique Truck and Tractor Museum, they might be interested in it.

[67RModel]

I watch and participate in a lot of auctions. If shined up and properly advertised that sucker would bring $15,000. I would say $20k tops. Its definitely going to go to a collector or hobbyist. I doubt there are many out there who would actually press that old girl into real work. Plus its Paccar with a Cummins and "normal transmission". More people are interested in those specs than the old time Mack powertrains. Christ literal scrap antique trucks often times sell for $3000 - 4000. Something that clean, unique, and mechanically sound is going to bring mid to upper teens. Its not 1985 anymore.....

[Geoff Weeks]

I hope you're right but suspect you're a bit optimistic. You'd need to find to "collectors" with deep pockets bidding against each other to see that much I fear.

[Brocky]

11 hours ago, other dog said:

Yes, I don't know either. It probably still looks that good, I think all he did with it was haul his antique tractors to shows with it. I would think it has more value to a collector than to somebody looking to put it to work. I told him he should call the Keystone Antique Truck and Tractor Museum, they might be interested in it.

Tommy, You are right on the Keystone or they might know of someone interested. You can use your membership in ATHS & ATCA to get advertisements in WOT and Double Clutch for your friend.. I would say it is in the 10 to 15k $$ figure.

Edited December 19 by Brocky

[70mackMB]

36 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

You'd need to find to "collectors" with deep pockets bidding against each other to see that much I fear.

lDK, l was watching a lawn and garden tractor auction on YouTube. Damn good thing l was sitting down with the prices they were getting. When we were pulling we spent $50.00 max for a tractor for us. They went to $1450.00 on one that just came from the bowels of a barn!    .....Hippy

[67RModel]

20 minutes ago, 70mackMB said:

lDK, l was watching a lawn and garden tractor auction on YouTube. Damn good thing l was sitting down with the prices they were getting. When we were pulling we spent $50.00 max for a tractor for us. They went to $1450.00 on one that just came from the bowels of a barn!    .....Hippy

This. Junk Sells For $5000. That truck will bring $15,000 all day and on the weekends. Also, you don't even need to be a member of ATHS to put a classified on ATHS backlot. Can be done by anyone online. At least for wanted ads. Maybe for sale is different. But i remember posting on there before I was a member.

Edited December 19 by 67RModel

[67RModel]

Never mind I didn't look before I posted that. Looks like there are no freebies anymore. 

[other dog]

58 minutes ago, Brocky said:

Tommy, You are right on the Keystone or they might know of someone interested. You can use your membership in ATHS & ATCA to get advertisements in WOT and Double Clutch for your friend.. I would say it is in the 10 to 15k $$ figure.

He said he gets WOT, he just didn't have an idea as to how much to list it for. I'd say the usual- ask more than you would expect to get, because you can always come down but you can't go up. 

I sold my mixer way too cheap. If I had kept it until now I could have gotten 3 times as much for it as I did then.

[other dog]

36 minutes ago, 67RModel said:

This. Junk Sells For $5000. That truck will bring $15,000 all day and on the weekends. Also, you don't even need to be a member of ATHS to put a classified on ATHS backlot. Can be done by anyone online. At least for wanted ads. Maybe for sale is different. But i remember posting on there before I was a member.

You're right about that, people drag junk out of the woods now and expect to get a fortune for it. Bad part is that a lot of times they do! 🤣 

[mowerman]

I would start at 30Gs see what kind of response you get got luck

[mowerman]

I wish someone would give me 1400 for my Montgomery ward lol paid 50 bucks and bought 250 worth of parts to clean it up then decided I really don’t need it been sitting outside for 15 years 

[Geoff Weeks]

2 hours ago, 67RModel said:

This. Junk Sells For $5000. That truck will bring $15,000 all day and on the weekends. Also, you don't even need to be a member of ATHS to put a classified on ATHS backlot. Can be done by anyone online. At least for wanted ads. Maybe for sale is different. But i remember posting on there before I was a member.

I'm not degrading the truck or its condition, but it has a very limited buyer market.

It can not as presently configured be used commercially on the road, too underpowered. It could be easly re-powered to meet today's requirements, but that is not how it is now, and that determines it value.

The buyer will either be someone who wants to move there own equipment around a farm or to shows, or a collector who wants that model. That is a small pool of purchasers.

Someone who just wants to move equipment around their farm isn't going to give top dollar. too many trucks out there.

A collector will likely value the condition more and be more willing to pay for that condition. They are even harder to find.

2021 I let a road ready, 400hp+ cabover go for 5K after having it for sale for more than a year. It could and was used on the road in today's loads and speeds. The engine was out of chassie overhauled a few years before, and had a new radiator ($2100). 

I'd love for him to see those kinds of prices, but my experience is it would take a lot of advertising and waiting for the right buyer to come along.

No problem asking for a higher price, but when it comes to the final sale, it will be what the buyer and seller agree too.

Again, not knocking the truck, just want to give realistic expectations.

I'd be thrilled with $20K for my 1992 Marmon, and that is more rare, and could easily be put to use on the road today.

Unfortunately, "what it is worth" and "what it will sell for" are two different figures.

[Joseph Cummings]

I don't know if you guys remember Tom Zacney. The LF below was his before he died. He had a really big collection of Macks, all kinds of stuff

Quote

Thomas L. Age 56 on Wednesday August 3rd, 2011, loving son of the late Leon P. and Florence (nee Bobiy) Zacny, Dear brother of Linda L. Rebstock (L.B.) of Phila. and William A. (Maggie) of Oreland, Pa., loving uncle of Lee Anne and L.B. Rebstock and Liam and Luke Zacny. Tom is also survived by his loving aunts and cousins, as well as many dear friends and relatives. Tom owned and operated the third generation of Zacny trucking/hauling located on American street in the Olney section of Philadelphia, which was his life long passion from early childhood. Tom road in the big green Zacny Mack and old Brockway ten wheelers with his grandfather and father night and day and worked around the company yard until his dream came true to finally drive his own truck. He hauled for most of Philadelphia’s general road construction trade and asphalt and paving companies for over 37 years continuing the well known prompt and dependable service of the Zacny family. “Big Tom” was widely known as more than just a truck driver always willing to jump down out of his cab to lend a hand on the job sites. He will be sadly missed by his construction buddies. He was a proud member of Teamsters Union local # 107 and spent most of his free time traveling to vintage truck auctions and collecting a few prize dump trucks and spare parts. Tom will truly miss his friends at many of the Philadelphia and surrounding area roadside diners (“The Crop”). He was a 1973 graduate of Cardinal Dougherty High School, a member of The Antique Truck Assoc., The Pa. Motor Truck Assoc. and The American Truck Historical Society. Relatives and friends are invited to Toms Life Celebration Tuesday morning August 9th from 9:00 to 11:00am at John F. Givnish of Academy Rd., 10975 Academy Rd., Phila. Followed by his funeral mass 12:00pm St. Christopher R.C. Church, 13301 Proctor Rd., Phila. Pa. 19116, interment William Penn Cemetery. To share your fondest memories of Tom please visit www.lifecelebration.com .

When Tom died he had a lot of cool trucks, Heavy spec L cab stuff and all kinds of things. All kinds of conditions, lots of them ran and drove. All the collectors that wanted them so bad wanted to pay less than scrap value. So much of it ended up going over the scale at Allegheny Iron. From my experience most collectors talk a great story, but never come with the cash. They want you to hold on to stuff while they think about it, and talk BS

[67RModel]

1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said:

"what it is worth" and "what it will sell for" are two different figures.

I disagree. What it sells for is what its worth. I am confident if that truck were properly advertised and consigned at the proper auction house it would sell for $15,000 or more. Buyers / sellers fees aside the hammer price would be that or better. Thats all I'm saying

[mowerman]

Personally, I would drop it off at a dealership on consignment probably the best way you’re gonna get big money out of it. Dealing with private parties is nothing but a pain in the ass half the time you stick around all afternoon waiting for them and they never show up then if they do, they want it For free

[Joseph Cummings]

1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said:

re-powered to meet today's requirements

It's a small cam Cummins, and most likely a RTO95****** trans that is only rated for a 900 foot pound engine. Maybe it's got a 2 countershaft Spicer 4 way in it if you are lucky like a 1241 and you can run a 9 speed in front of it

[Geoff Weeks]

13 minutes ago, 67RModel said:

I disagree. What it sells for is what its worth. I am confident if that truck were properly advertised and consigned at the proper auction house it would sell for $15,000 or more. Buyers / sellers fees aside the hammer price would be that or better. Thats all I'm saying

If it is worth more to me than what it will sell for, it is worth more to me then the other guy and no sale!  Unless you put a reserve on it, it goes for the hammer price whether you think it should go for more or not.

May be it is a regional thing, out here there are plenty of trucks with more modern spec's going for far less. I would be a very lucky day to see it go for more than Joseph Cummings offered.

I never paid to much attention to what a drivetrain was "rated for" in terms of Ft/lbs.  As long as it is a twin countershaft trans I wouldn't worry.  Did all my heavy haul with 1100 series 13 spd and 14 organic clutch.

Worth can be measured in a sale price or a replacement price. If it worth more to me than you, so be it. In this case I think the sale price will be less than it "worth" to the present owner.

[mrsmackpaul]

1 hour ago, Joseph Cummings said:

From my experience most collectors talk a great story, but never come with the cash. They want you to hold on to stuff while they think about it, and talk BS

 

I 100% agree with this statement, even in this wide brown land 

Social media like Facebook is probably the worst spot to get a value

A whole lotta waffle and if only from jokers 

Could always put it in a auction with a reserve and of it doesn't meet the reserve the auctioneer will deal with the loosing bidders and vendor to try and get a deal sorted

And even in Yanky land I reckon 15 - 20 grand is probably achievable, just gotta find the right spot to sell it 

Dunno about dealer's over there, auctions at least cut out all the B.S. and tyre kickers as we call them 

 

Paul

 

[67RModel]

6 hours ago, 67RModel said:

I watch and participate in a lot of auctions.

 

1 hour ago, 67RModel said:

if that truck were properly advertised and consigned at the proper auction house it would sell for $15,000 or more.

Lets reconvene in 2 or 3 days and see what lots 1, 4, 5, 6, & 7 sell for.

Sheesley Vintage Truck Collection - Aumann Auctions, Inc.

[67RModel]

1 hour ago, mowerman said:

Dealing with private parties is nothing but a pain in the ass half the time you stick around all afternoon waiting for them and they never show up then if they do, they want it For free

 

12 minutes ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Social media like Facebook is probably the worst spot to get a value

Yes in my experience your wasting your time as a seller operating this way.

[Geoff Weeks]

17 minutes ago, 67RModel said:

 

Lets reconvene in 2 or 3 days and see what lots 1, 4, 5, 6, & 7 sell for.

Sheesley Vintage Truck Collection - Aumann Auctions, Inc.

I'd say #5 is the only one that is a close enough analogy to have any meaning.  The rest are not at all in the same "class". They have, wrecker bed, to boost the value, or have been updated considerably.

Hard to find something that directly correlates

Edited December 19 by Geoff Weeks