Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 01:30 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:30 AM I have only seen one in the US and it was a single axle converter C train! Has anyone else ever seen one in the US? IIRC is was a Bedbugger rig (Hence the single axle converter). It was years ago and I never saw one since then. Plenty of A and B's. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted Wednesday at 01:46 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:46 AM (edited) GW, I need a better description of what you are calling a "C" train?????? UPS used a lot of low connect A hitch converters and of course the triples out west.. Edited Wednesday at 01:48 AM by Brocky 1 Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted Wednesday at 01:49 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:49 AM I've never seen a C train of any type except in pictures, Here in Pa I only ever see A Trains Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted Wednesday at 01:52 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:52 AM 3 minutes ago, Brocky said: GW, I need a better description of what you are calling a "C" train?????? UPS used a lot of low connect A hitch converters and of course the triples out west.. C train the dolly hooks up with 2 pintile hooks, so it can only articulate up and down, not side to side 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 03:06 AM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 03:06 AM Yes, it almost looks like someone got drunk and hooked the converter on backwards! Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 03:20 AM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 03:20 AM (edited) A train has a single pintle hitch on the front of the convertor and a 5th over the axle of the convertor B train has an extended frame on the front trailer and a 5th wheel on the back of the front trailer C train has the converter attached to the front trailer with 2 connections side by side, and a 5th over the axle. A and C trains don't put much if any weight on the front trailer. B train rear trailers weight is partially carried by the front trailer A train has two pivot points (hence "set of joints") B and C have one pivot point. Clear is mud! Edited Wednesday at 03:22 AM by Geoff Weeks 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565129 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted Wednesday at 03:56 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:56 AM l have never seen a "C" train. But l caught a "B" train sneaking thru NH once a long time ago on l-89. .....Hippy Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowerman Posted Wednesday at 02:14 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:14 PM I think I’ve seen a few of both when I was running around LA it’s been years Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted Wednesday at 03:09 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:09 PM GW Thank you or the description!!! I think I remember seeing a picture of the bedbugger (Allied???) "C" train you mentioned but have never seen one in person. Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 03:35 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 03:35 PM Thinking about it, a C train is best suited for Bedbug operation, light so the ridged connection isn't as much a problem, can be loaded off a dock or through the rear on the front trailer when broken apart, (something more difficult on a "B") and less side to side waggling that could cause cargo damage on a bedbugger load. The lead trailer has to drag the converter dolly around corners, like a spread axle flat bed, so the lighter the axle loading the better they will corner. B's need a sliding sub-frame to be rear loaded, so are more popular with flat beds where they are more often loaded off the side or by overhead crane. My guess is there just isn't enough advantage over straight truck and full trailer for them to be worth the trouble. I see plenty of bedbugger straight trucks and trailers along with the 48' and 53' semi trailers Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted Wednesday at 04:39 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:39 PM (edited) 1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said: B's need a sliding sub-frame to be rear loaded, so are more popular with flat beds where they are more often loaded off the side or by overhead While traveling across Canada I saw many loading docks which projected out from the door enough so that the lead trailer of a "B" train could back under it and have access to the doors on the lead trailer.. Paul, Are Australian are loading platforms set up the same?????? Edited Wednesday at 04:40 PM by Brocky Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted Wednesday at 04:54 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:54 PM Looking for info on "C" trains l found this! A "D" train set-up. .....Hippy 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 05:26 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 05:26 PM I can see why I never saw one of those. Kinda like a Jiff-lock but much more difficult to work with. With a single powered axle, I bet they were fun to steer in less than ideal conditions. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted Wednesday at 06:25 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:25 PM 50 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said: I can see why I never saw one of those. Kinda like a Jiff-lock but much more difficult to work with. With a single powered axle, I bet they were fun to steer in less than ideal conditions. Consolidated Freightways Had what were called "Pennsylvania Suicide Doubles" Running between York PA and Akron Ohio as by latching the front trailer to the tractor frame and pulling a regular pup trailer it became a "Truck Trailer" combination in Pennsylvania.. The long wheelbase and long sliding 5th wheel tractors and lead trailers were custom built with folding landing gear and were kept on on that run only, pulling a rear pup from elsewhere in their system. I think(??) there was a big article on them in the ATHS WOT several years ago about the the time ATHS bought the big neon sign???? 1 Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 07:33 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 07:33 PM Yeah, I think I remember that. The "C" and "D" look like they came about to deal with length laws and loop-holes that were exploited for Truck Trailer combo's over semi trailer combos. In the US where OAL laws have almost disappeared, the need for these weird combos are gone as well. Now it is trailer length not bumper to bumper that counts in most places. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
70mackMB Posted Wednesday at 10:36 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:36 PM 4 hours ago, Brocky said: Consolidated Freightways Had what were called "Pennsylvania Suicide Doubles" Running between PA and Ohio And they had the block tractors on the l-90 thruway. Used to pull the dollied pup across PA following the lead tractor and pup. The reason for all of this was PA did not allow doubles of any kind. .....Hippy And a page for BROCKY too! 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post D2Denny Posted yesterday at 12:27 AM Popular Post Share Posted yesterday at 12:27 AM I started my career with CF in their Richfield Ohio shop in 1970. The Truck Tainers were just being put into service then. I worked with some of the Freightliner engineers as they worked through the growing pains. Attached is an article I wrote for the ATHS NEO chapter newsletter a while ago about these units. 1 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowerman Posted yesterday at 02:17 PM Share Posted yesterday at 02:17 PM Wow that was very interesting… thanks for that I have never seen one . bob 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted yesterday at 02:37 PM Share Posted yesterday at 02:37 PM (edited) I can remember seeing them in their yard at the York PA terminal when I went by on I-83.. Probably also saw them on the PA Pike but newer paid that close attention 😟 I also remember the seeing the "Block Tractors", a regular tractor tractor with a large concrete block in place of the 5th wheel and a normal pintal hitch on a reinforced rear crossmember, pulling a single pup across the 40 miles(???) of I-90 across Pennsylvania from Ohio to New York State. CF also had some of their 4X4 "Mountineer" tractors based out of Buffalo for awhile when the NYS Thruway was enforcing a two driving axle rule for pulling doubles. Edited yesterday at 02:47 PM by Brocky Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2Denny Posted yesterday at 10:41 PM Share Posted yesterday at 10:41 PM I was Shop Manager in CF's Buffalo shop during the 70's. For the twin forty foot Turnpike doubles we had a small fleet of cabover Freightliner tandem drive tractors powered by 12V71's set at 390 HP and one test tandem tractor powered by a Cat 1693. Also, at the time we were experimenting pulling triple pup trailers that the NY thruway authority insisted be 2 axle drive. For that CF had Freightliner build a pair of 2 axle tractors with front wheel drive in a 4X4 configuration. These were powered by some of the first 8V71T's at 350 HP. Couldn't keep front axle steer knuckles in them as drivers would pop them in the hook areas as they were assembling their set. Eventually it was proved to the Turnpike authority that a regular two axle doubles type tractor could do the job effectively and safely. We converted the 2 4X4 tractors back to standard doubles tractors in our shop. 1 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
D2Denny Posted yesterday at 10:55 PM Share Posted yesterday at 10:55 PM As for "Block" tractors that Brockey mentioned (we called them coffin carriers) one of my first tasks as a maintenance management trainee was to figure out and design the "block" that set on the frame of a standard 2 axle fleet tractor. Had to calculate out how much concrete was needed to create an 18,000 lb block and design the "Box" to form it up in. Had the trailer shop build the box out of plywood mounted on the tractor and filled it with concrete. Had 5 of these units. Interestingly enough, when CF went belly up I was working for Yellow as shop manager in Columbus Ohio. The Yellow Shop in Richfield bought several of the "Blocks" at their going out of business auction, sent one down to Columbus and we mounted up on a retired tractor as a yard "Pusher" unit. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 23 hours ago Share Posted 23 hours ago 45 minutes ago, D2Denny said: As for "Block" tractors that Brockey mentioned (we called them coffin carriers) one of my first tasks as a maintenance management trainee was to figure out and design the "block" that set on the frame of a standard 2 axle fleet tractor. Had to calculate out how much concrete was needed to create an 18,000 lb block and design the "Box" to form it up in. Had the trailer shop build the box out of plywood mounted on the tractor and filled it with concrete. Had 5 of these units. Interestingly enough, when CF went belly up I was working for Yellow as shop manager in Columbus Ohio. The Yellow Shop in Richfield bought several of the "Blocks" at their going out of business auction, sent one down to Columbus and we mounted up on a retired tractor as a yard "Pusher" unit. I had to move a big compressor one time. One of those ones on 4 wheels with an axe that steered on the front. I only had my tractor because I dropped the storage trailer I hauled out on the jobsite. I was only going like 5 miles with it. You want to talk about getting squirrelly, I got it up to about 20 MPH and it was trying to send me off the side of the road. I had to ride up the shoulder at like 5mph the whole way. I'll never try that again. So you put 18,000 on a single axle tractor? And permanently mounted? I wouldn't have thought you'd need that much. But I guess that put the tare weight of the tractor with the weight box affixed at around 30,000, axles could be at 12 and 20k being there was no real tongue weight when hooked to the trailer Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted 22 hours ago Share Posted 22 hours ago Denny, Thank You for explaining the 4X4 CF tractors. I was a dock foreman for Roadway in Syracuse at the time and only saw them going by on the adjacent Thruway.. The first 40ft double's Roadway tried on the NYS Thruway, they took an R 700 in the shop in Akron and installed a Rebuilt 8V71 with the biggest injectors available and changed the rears to 4:56.. Top end 58 MPH!!!! And bought/built 3 lead trailers and 1 tandem converter. The first operation was Buffalo to Syracuse only, then they expanded to Utica also.. I left Roadway before they expanded to Worcester Mass.. 1 Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowerman Posted 7 hours ago Share Posted 7 hours ago On 1/2/2025 at 6:37 AM, Brocky said: I can remember seeing them in their yard at the York PA terminal when I went by on I-83.. Probably also saw them on the PA Pike but newer paid that close attention 😟 I also remember the seeing the "Block Tractors", a regular tractor tractor with a large concrete block in place of the 5th wheel and a normal pintal hitch on a reinforced rear crossmember, pulling a single pup across the 40 miles(???) of I-90 across Pennsylvania from Ohio to New York State. CF also had some of their 4X4 "Mountineer" tractors based out of Buffalo for awhile when the NYS Thruway was enforcing a two driving axle rule for pulling doubles. CF also used to keep a pusher truck on donner pass for those of us that were chained up with doubles and still spinning out it might have been an all wheel drive but it had a huge cement block on the frame 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowerman Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago Aaaaaaaaaaaa. The good old days when everybody ran a radio you could just yell out for him and he would come up after you usually used to hang around the west bound side. That was the steepest part. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/74923-c-train-doubles/#findComment-565280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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