Obsolete Head Gasket?? Just Go To The Flea Market and See This Guy

[Joseph Cummings]

How come no one is H1B this guy and his apprentice?

 

https://youtu.be/D-NpIif-xlc?si=ELURE5Anq6QMqPQg

[Joseph Cummings]

 

[cruiseliner64]

No bother to these lads..no computers just brains and skill.Like the Western world 70 or so years ago..

Paul

[Joseph Cummings]

I love these guys. Especially the way they upset all the tech school brainiacs that need 7 micrometers and 2 torque wrenches to replace a rocker cover gasket and it leaks worse when they are done.

This is the problem with the new breed of mechanics, they just don't understand this simple statement,,, "That machine has to run tomorrow or we are royally Fu&%^ed". It's like they are more concerned about what they learned reading Big Rigger Magazine, and what the guys at the chrome shop told them. They are "going to do it the RIGHT way" because downtime isn't important

Damn Millennials with their soft hands and their avocado toast and girl coffee 😠

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Before you get all dewy eyed over these third world repairs, stop and think a moment. I am not saying they aren't skilled at the labor they do, but for the repair to be viable, there is far more than that.

 I have seen many of these videos, no where do you see the total man hours of labor. Neither do you see the man hour of labor to get the problem broken down to the repair point.

 Now we get into metallurgy where axle or crankshafts are repaired by boring and welding in a plug, then over welding and machining back down to original dimensions. There is no way that shaft has the same strength and ductility of the original, the one that just failed, how long do you think a weaker part with a section that is weaker than the original will last?

 Yeah, I have taken a bend out of a hyd rod, but you know as well as I it is a temporary repair at best.

Not taking anything from their mold-making abilities, but casting an engine part is more than just making a good mold. You need high quality iron alloy to make the cast.

What does a good mold make get paid in the US?  then add up the hours involved and that off the shelf with warranty starts to look cheap.

Between exchange rates and labor costs it leaves the 3 rd world little choice, but that doesn't make it a good one.  How many of you are willing to stand behind and warranty a re-welded axle shaft?   A re-cast cyl head of unknown  metallurgy?

It isn't because we are all "pansy's" in the developed world, it is because we have better options.

Pull those craftsman out of there back ally shop and set them up here, and you wouldn't be able to afford them.

Yes, it is impressive what they can make out of nothing, but that doesn't make it suited to the job, It may look exactly like the part, but it will not be of the same caliber.

How many of you have bought a cheap "Harbor freight" vise only to have the casting break the 1st time you hit or crank down on it? Yeah, it "looks the part" but can't do the job!

[Joseph Cummings]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

Before you get all dewy eyed over these third world repairs, stop and think a moment. I am not saying they aren't skilled at the labor they do, but for the repair to be viable, there is far more than that.

 I have seen many of these videos, no where do you see the total man hours of labor. Neither do you see the man hour of labor to get the problem broken down to the repair point.

 Now we get into metallurgy where axle or crankshafts are repaired by boring and welding in a plug, then over welding and machining back down to original dimensions. There is no way that shaft has the same strength and ductility of the original, the one that just failed, how long do you think a weaker part with a section that is weaker than the original will last?

 Yeah, I have taken a bend out of a hyd rod, but you know as well as I it is a temporary repair at best.

Not taking anything from their mold-making abilities, but casting an engine part is more than just making a good mold. You need high quality iron alloy to make the cast.

What does a good mold make get paid in the US?  then add up the hours involved and that off the shelf with warranty starts to look cheap.

Between exchange rates and labor costs it leaves the 3 rd world little choice, but that doesn't make it a good one.  How many of you are willing to stand behind and warranty a re-welded axle shaft?   A re-cast cyl head of unknown  metallurgy?

It isn't because we are all "pansy's" in the developed world, it is because we have better options.

Pull those craftsman out of there back ally shop and set them up here, and you wouldn't be able to afford them.

Yes, it is impressive what they can make out of nothing, but that doesn't make it suited to the job, It may look exactly like the part, but it will not be of the same caliber.

How many of you have bought a cheap "Harbor freight" vise only to have the casting break the 1st time you hit or crank down on it? Yeah, it "looks the part" but can't do the job!

And when your equipment is down because you can't get the part? It's on back order, and maybe in 6 weeks. That's 42 days of not mining coal, or not harvesting wheat, or not delivering widgets. Not only does that downtime get expensive, but sometimes while you are jerking your bird to the shrine of "doing it right" your customers call somebody else.

That is the problem with the new breed. They think working in industry is like working on Mrs. Smith's Toyota. Like it's perfectly acceptable to push it out the door and let it sit on the lot for 2 months waiting on parts. She can just ride with a friend or take an Uber

[Geoff Weeks]

And how many breakdowns and the labor to repair the same part over and over can you afford?

I know about working on stuff where the parts are not available, or months out. But I would cannibalize another to keep one going, over some of the things seen on those videos.

As I said, you never see how long those "repairs" last.

I kept the double decker buses running in Chicago, parts? they were obsolete in England, and not many around, then air freight to the US.  Most things could be made, but I would never weld a broken axle, There are repairs that are sound, and those you do, but there are those that can't be made to the standards required for the job.

 Make my own headgasket, yeah, I've done that. build up a waterrail and re machine, yeah I've done that. But weld a broken axle or crankshaft, Yeah, I'm smarter than to do that!

We always had one or two waiting on something that could be used as parts for another until the missing parts can be sourced.

Emergency repairs to "get you out of the hole" will come back to bite you if you don't address the problem. I changed out an exhaust valve spring in the field, only to not be allowed to address the real problem once the work day was done. It needed the head to come off, and the guides replaced (they were so bad exhaust gases passed up the guide into the rocker box).  Always time for emergency repair, never time to do it right. head of valve snapped off took out the bore, piston and head. 

 

[BOBWhite]

I don't get that hydraulic cylinder repair at all, what is burning oily rags underneath it supposed to do? And there at the end they realize it cannot be straightened and the video conveniently cuts away.

While the head gasket and casting videos show some real skill I think most of these videos are just view farming to entertain kids with low attention spans. 

[Joseph Cummings]

34 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

But I would cannibalize another to keep one going, over some of the things seen on those videos.

Lots of times with industrial stuff there are no parts, None at all. Not in a salvage yard, not one to rob off of something in your yard, none anywhere.

I had a sewage plant clarifier drive up in Maine that was a worm drive from like 1927. They ran it until teeth broke off and it jammed. I tried places that made gears for me before and they were giving me lead times of months, We were running a hot bypass on the clarifier, but that involves a lot of portable pumps, manual scum skimming, and lots of other work. What are you going to do, tell people to stop sh8tting so much? 

I just did what I had to do, I brought the gears back to our shop in Trenton, we had a really good Jamaican welder, and a really good Romanian machinist, and we got our heads together and welded it al back up and the Romanian "machined" the gear teeth with a grinder by hand with templates he made. Not saying it was as good as new parts, but the town could sh8t again. It lasted until we could get a retrofit drive manufactured and install it and that took at least a year.

That is just one of many times I've had stuff like that dropped in my lap. Running away isn't an option. Blaming it on your supplier doesn't get the equipment up and running

[Geoff Weeks]

A patch until it can be repaired correctly is different than a repair that does not have a replacement in its future.

You did what was needed, and the town paid twice, because the options were limited.

Someone who welds a crankshaft that has snapped or an axle isn't planning on replacing as soon as a new one can be sourced. The labor is prohibitive.

You admit your repair is not a permanent solution to the problem, that is all I'm getting at with these 3rd world repairs, they are investing huge amounts of labor time into something that is not a permanent solution to the issue. By doing so, they run the very real risk of taking something that is repairable and making it un repairable.

That is the reason it is not done here, patch yes, but not on critical parts that will cause more damage if they fail.

In the video's we never see what comes next, how long the repair lasted (if at all), or what the total costs worked out to be.

[The Heinz]

Allow me to throw my hat into the ring. I'm a Gen Z 26 year old that worked 3 years at a fleet shop and 3+ as a parts salesman at a Mack dealership. There were absolutely times were a jerry rigged repair worked perfectly, but there were many times were jerry rigging did nothing but waste time. Sure, lots of people my age are dumb as a rock and couldn't think outside the box to save their lives, but you also have to consider we might not have been raised to know how to do such things. I'm an example of that, my dad rest his soul was not a wrench turner in the slightest, so I didn't learn much through him. My grandad was probably the best welder/metalworker South Carolina has seen and was absolutely the kind of man that could make a mountain into a mole-hill with a little ingenuity. Me, I've had to learn as I go, either by people taking me under their wing or me just observing from a distance. 

Another reason we don't jerry rig often is company rules. Doing something like heating an excavator cylinder to bend it back on company time could very quickly earn you a one way trip to The Job Search™. But then when the bean counters notice equipment sitting idle waiting for parts, they pressure their underlings, who pressure the actual workers. Such is the way of modern corporate America.

I'm just tired of hearing my generation dragged through the mud about not being as good as previous generations. Maybe if we had been RAISED BETTER, we could have stood a chance. 

[Joseph Cummings]

Here is an example that would make thhe new breed of mechanics loose their sh8t. 

When I was a kid my uncle had a "Winona intheblok crankshaft grinder"  that worked much like this Sunnen in the video. You don't know how many times I get called a BSer for even talking about it. Those little snots will tell me "you can't do that" .

Well I can think of more than a few times that he fixed a rod knock without tearing the engine out of the machine. A few times without even pulling the head. And those engines lived for years

 

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Used to be quite popular to grind in place.

However you are limited to minor damage as most engines didn't have U/S bearing smaller than .060"

Edited Thursday at 07:56 PM by Geoff Weeks

[Joseph Cummings]

18 minutes ago, The Heinz said:

Another reason we don't jerry rig often is company rules. Doing something like heating an excavator cylinder to bend it back on company time could very quickly earn you a one way trip to The Job Search™. But then when the bean counters notice equipment sitting idle waiting for parts, they pressure their underlings, who pressure the actual workers. Such is the way of modern corporate America.

OMG those college "educated" lazy office bums are the worst. They have such swelled heads. Can't change a tire, jump start a car, if you hand them a tape measure they can't even calculate the SQ footage of a room. I tried to explain the 3,4,5 rule and the trig behind it to one not long ago and he thought I made it up and went and got this short little square to "check my work". Most of those bums are lucky if they read at an 8th grade level, but think they are the elite. Large corporations are way too into "Credentialism". Half of these foreign ones have a degree from someplace like Axact* and the HR C%NTs take it at face value.

BTW Heinz, I didn't say "All". I know some smart kids it's just that they are so few and far between now

*(Axact (Urdu: ایگزیکٹ) is a Pakistan software company that runs numerous websites selling fraudulent academic degrees for fictional universities.^[1] The company used to own the media company BOL Network.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axact

[The Heinz]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said:

OMG those college "educated" lazy office bums are the worst. They have such swelled heads. Can't change a tire, jump start a car, if you hand them a tape measure they can't even calculate the SQ footage of a room. I tried to explain the 3,4,5 rule and the trig behind it to one not long ago and he thought I made it up and went and got this short little square to "check my work". Most of those bums are lucky if they read at an 8th grade level, but think they are the elite. Large corporations are way too into "Credentialism". Half of these foreign ones have a degree from someplace like Axact* and the HR C%NTs take it at face value.

BTW Heinz, I didn't say "All". I know some smart kids it's just that they are so few and far between now

*(Axact (Urdu: ایگزیکٹ) is a Pakistan software company that runs numerous websites selling fraudulent academic degrees for fictional universities.^[1] The company used to own the media company BOL Network.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axact

I know, I just get really irritated at seeing the "You youngins suck" comments lol. I love and respect my elders, but I don't get along with the cranky ones if you catch my drift. The bean counters are absolutely the worst, it's almost always an upper management issue that drives away good employees; as they say, crap rolls downhill. 

[Joseph Cummings]

All while still in their pajamas and slippers

Girl without a Hijab painted on the back must be the Pak version of the chrome naked chick you see on mudflaps

 

[Big R]

4 hours ago, The Heinz said:

I know, I just get really irritated at seeing the "You youngins suck" comments lol. I love and respect my elders, but I don't get along with the cranky ones if you catch my drift. The bean counters are absolutely the worst, it's almost always an upper management issue that drives away good employees; as they say, crap rolls downhill. 

I know I should stay out of this but I don’t feel I can.  I agree with the Heinz that the generalized comments about the young are a piss off.  It is not the fault of the young for the way the world works right now.  If things were so much better when Joseph was young that is because of the generation before him.  Whose fault is it now I wonder.  If he was a young person now he would be no better than the good ones which there are lots of. There was the odd loser when I grew up too but I bet the ratio is the same as now.  Let’s try to remember that not everyone on this forum is old  and youth is needed to keep it alive. 

[BOBWhite]

I don't like to share my age on forums for the reason that I don't wanna get lumped in with the dumb "young folks" Heck I'm even younger than Heinz. I can't say that there are more or less losers now than back in the day, but I can figure that most of losers of yesteryear are long gone by now. 

Met a kid who was younger than me at a show the other day who had a beautiful 72 KW, not his daddies either. Turns out he finished putting the transmission in it that night and drove 2 hours in the morning to get it there. What a guy! really knocks you down a peg when you come across a prodigy as young that! Hope there are plenty of guys around like that when I'm old

 

Edited yesterday at 05:43 AM by BOBWhite

[glenbjackson]

 

i have to say a "Winona intheblok crankshaft grinder" is akin to buying a home made gasket....it could work if planned, executed correctly and tested for application. both CAN be effective for a permanent fix, both can fail the setup/application.

so would i buy this if given a chance. YESSS could turn out better then OEM and they exist.   i cannot afford a obsolete/discontinued/nonexistent part.  id buy a few and test on a spare motor.  but thats alot of time, work= money. but i also see the learning and research aspect of it......priceless

just never know until you know(measure/tested)

 

P.S. anybody have the flywheel turning gear/cable attachment for the winona crankshaft grinder. PM me please looking to buy.

[Joseph Cummings]

21 minutes ago, glenbjackson said:

i have to say a "Winona intheblok crankshaft grinder" is akin to buying a home made gasket....it could work if planned, executed correctly and tested for application. both CAN be effective for a permanent fix, both can fail the setup/application.

I've had guys with modern well equipped shops send me parts that were machined wrong too. And you should have seen the idiots that worked at RMP that rebuilt stuff for Ford at their plant in Jersey. Their stuff was notoriously bad in the 80s and 90's

[mrsmackpaul]

Age has nothing to do with ability 

Years of experience has nothing to do with ability 

Ability has to be taught, so why are people less able to fix none text book problems these days ?

I dunno, I  feel most people are not allowed to think for themselves anymore

And if they do think for themselves they are chastised if they get it wrong 

As a young bloke I was very fortunate to have 2 very good tradesman teach me as a apprentice 

No matter what mistakes I made, if they could see I was trying they never gave me a hard time

The company I worked for had at times 150 tradesmen and at a guess a 1/3 were just grumpy old pricks that had the shits on with the world 

Another 1/3 were just getting by raising a family and so on

The other 1/3 cared a lot and probably 10% of those really wanted to teach apprentices 

As to these so called dodgy  repairs, well I guess it is like the U.S. or Australia 80 years ago

We just got shit done, it might not of been text book right but it worked good enough, if not better at times than the OEM gear

 

Paul

[Joseph Cummings]

I don't know, but it all seems to be falling apart. Young guys can't start early because God forbit someone under 18 touches a power tool. No young guys are coming in, old guys like me are ageing out of the workforce. Guys in the middle are quitting in droves. DEI  has companies putting women with college degrees in charge of maintenance of trucks and machinery. HR ladies chasing away anybody good and hiring the guy that make her panties the moistest or whoever checks off the most DEI boxes.

Screw it, let it all fail

[Joey Mack]

Lets not forget the intentional feminization of young boys and men.  These males are soft.  

 

I would take any young guy who wanted to learn what im teaching, over a ' checked box' person any day..  

[Joey Mack]

Take ''TheHeinz' for example.  He joined us a short time ago and has helped greatly. He is not cocky, and knows when he doesnt know. He also will go the extra mile to help answer questions.  A shining example of someone i would want to teach.

[Geoff Weeks]

4 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

A

As to these so called dodgy  repairs, well I guess it is like the U.S. or Australia 80 years ago

 

 

Paul

Big difference between today and 80 years ago. Loads, torque and HP have skyrocketed over what was done 80 years ago. To be able to handle that, metallurgy and mfg processes have changed.   Today there are far fewer "twisted' axle shafts, to the point I would say none. Plenty of snapped axle shafts, the axle has become much harder to take the power and loading of today, without gaining in size. loads have increased, torque has increased but size has not. Fine splines carry more torque than the old course spline shafts ever could.

Repairs that were "dodgey" at best 80 years ago, with softer metals and components just can't stand up to today's load requirements.

 Most know on some level that a forging is stronger than a cast or built up piece, A gear set hobbed in the annealed state then hardened, will be stronger that a gear build up with weld on a hardened part then ground.

The problem in these 3rd world "repairs" is the original parts were over-loaded to the point of failure, then repaired with weaker processes and put right back in the situation where the original hardened part failed.

I can admire the tenacity of them trying, but can't say it is worth the effort, nor condemn those with more options for choosing a better repair.

Mfg has moved on from the point that soft steel can be used to handle todays requirements. If you had to build something out of low carbon steel to handle today's loads it would be so big and heavy it could not carry today's loads.