Mack twin y suspension

[cruiseliner64]

Well done to The Heinz,you seem very interested in your job.Iv done a few restorations on vintage Toyotas in the past and only for a young guy like you in the parts dept of our local Toyota dealer they would never have been finnished.It is truly great to see young people like you coming along.Keep up the great work.

Paul

[2014pinnacle]

The spring shop has the lowers no uppers I don’t get how they get away with making these trucks and no parts to fix them

 

[Joey Mack]

Sorry.. Volvo killed the Mack Brand...

[Joseph Cummings]

I say put a camelback or an RS series Hendrickson under it

 

 

Edited Saturday at 06:06 AM by Joseph Cummings

[Geoff Weeks]

There are several good suspensions that have been around for years, and parts are readily available, for years after they have fallen from favor.

 Then there are the odd ball ones that never lived up to expectations.

I think the choice has to be made to either get rid of the truck or put something else under it.

Hendrickson Air ride (Z spring) has been around for decades, and used by almost every Mfg in some form or other, including Mack. Good air ride for on/off road combo.

Camelback and Hendrickson beam are both great off road and fair on road suspensions.

Various 4 springs are fair on road and lousy off road (not enough articulation for off road)

I have never seen the one in question on a truck.

The 1st one shown that wasn't the one in question I knew as Volvo T ride, but I guess it went under other names as well.

My experience has been fixing it once, it will just push the problem down the road, and that is if parts can be had.

My ARDAB once took 18 months to get a part for it.

[Joey Mack]

GW has a good point. Air ride is a good choice if you decide to swap it, i also favor the hendrickson walking beam, as well as HN, which is very easy to maintain bit rides hard.  And his point about the problem being there again later because of parts issues makes sense.. 

[Joseph Cummings]

Actually what we should be asking is what kind of work does this truck do? How is it speced out? 

[Joseph Cummings]

[Geoff Weeks]

If walking beam has a drawback, it is that there is no alignment possible after the brackets have been welded  onto the axle housings, and the brackets are attached to the frame.

So choose a good installer that can be sure the suspension in alignment.

[Joey Mack]

I thought the shims on the bolts at the axle mounts were for alignment, they come in different thickness and you get a lot of them in the mounting kit.  (Hendrickson walking beam)

[Joey Mack]

Am i mistaken?? 

[Geoff Weeks]

I'm not sure what you are refering to? Axle mount is a weldment on the axle with a rubber bushing, I don't remember any shims there?

https://www.stengelbros.net/RT-RTE-380-400-440-460-RT2-RTE2-400-460--Tandem-Suspensions_c_978.html

The newer style must be what you talking about, my stuff is all the older style with a round hole and through bolt at the axle connection. I forgot about those that bolt on. My bad, good catch.

Edited Saturday at 03:28 PM by Geoff Weeks

[Joseph Cummings]

I've never converted axle housings. I've always bought used cutoffs and just swapped the whole thing

[mechohaulic]

1 hour ago, Joseph Cummings said:

Actually what we should be asking is what kind of work does this truck do? How is it speced out? 

have to agree on that point. 2016 not that old; not knowing use / $$$$ stand point /or who's doing the work definitely would affect decision. complete swap out requires serious drilling equipt. 

[Geoff Weeks]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said:

I've never converted axle housings. I've always bought used cutoffs and just swapped the whole thing

The point I was making is either the whole cut-off or the suspension alone, With walking beam, you have to be extra careful to make sure they are aligned before welding. Unlike Z spring where there is a fair bit of adjustment possible to compensate for any mis-alignment  (within reason).

I am reading that there may be some aftermarket eccentric axle adaptor bushing made to correct some very small mis alignment in the older style. OEM's were concentric.

So I may not be technically correct but walking beam is more critical on initial set-up than many other suspensions.

On the Z  spring, you shim the fore-aft torque arm and have a lot of adjustment.

[Joey Mack]

GW.. i was referring to the square box type shims that go over the bushing pin , them the mount bolts go through them.  I dont know the technical name for them.  I could swear there was sizes stamped into them for axle line up purposes..  yes a cut off swap would be good too. Just revert to how I used to replace suspension sets thats all.  I may need to give it a break for a while. Im not as smart as i thought...  

[Joey Mack]

Just messin....  

[Joseph Cummings]

I'm just saying that when there are cutoffs in nice shape in the 2 to 5 thousand dollar range depending on what you want, I'm not going out and buying a new suspension and converting the axle housings by cutting off old brackets and welding on new ones. Sounds like a lot more work and a lot more money to me for very little if any gain

[Geoff Weeks]

No, I think you are correct on the newer walking beam ends, I just never had any newer style, and was talking from memory/experience on my old stuff.

I remember talking to Rob Swallows about having to re-do a cutoff change that some else had done. They got the thrust alignment so far out, there was no other choice but to cut it off and re install.

[Joey Mack]

Good point JC. Cost and down time for sure..  good thing is his suspension is outside the rails. So if he does an air ride swap 90% of the parts are on the outside.  Unlike walking beam, HN, or Camelback..  Air ride is pretty good. And mounts easily, axle mounts on the housings is a challenge, too damn bad these parts arent available..

[Geoff Weeks]

1 minute ago, Joseph Cummings said:

I'm just saying that when there are cutoffs in nice shape in the 2 to 5 thousand dollar range depending on what you want, I'm not going out and buying a new suspension and converting the axle housings by cutting off old brackets and welding on new ones. Sounds like a lot more work and a lot more money to me for very little if any gain

I know what you are saying, but it still requires getting the alignment correct, some suspension have more adjustment possible than other.

Both axles have to be aligned to each other, and the whole tandem has to have the thrust line, aligned with the rest of the truck.

 Some, like Z spring have a lot of adjustment possible, a few thousandths of welding mis-alignment when attaching the cut-off can be "shimmed" out when the job is done, On older walking beam you have little to no adjustment possible.

On Neway there is a slotted hole on the front hangers, you align and weld the heavy washer to the hanger, You can move the axle forward or back.

 On Z spring there are shims that can be placed on the fore-aft torque rod either at the axle end (move the axle back) or at the hanger end (move axle forward) on all four attachments. It gives a lot of adjustment possible.

On walking beam, the OEM old style bushing were concentric and required the install to be right on the money, you can't correct after the fact. I guess aftermarket has some eccentric bushings for the through bolt style that will allow a little movement.

With my ARDAB the bushing have worn and the thrust alignment has suffered, it chews through steer tires 'cause the rears are trying to push the truck down the road sideways.

[Joseph Cummings]

This isn't even that good of price for older 44s with the cones There are plenty out there. all kinds of hubs, ratios, flat flange axles

[Joey Mack]

Air ride also has adjustable torque rods on one side.

[Joey Mack]

Ok,,, here i go again... The truck is a 2014.. i bet the computer's wont like reading the rear axles.. I wonder if im on to something ?

[Joseph Cummings]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

I know what you are saying, but it still requires getting the alignment correct, some suspension have more adjustment possible than other.

Both axles have to be aligned to each other, and the whole tandem has to have the thrust line, aligned with the rest of the truck.

 Some, like Z spring have a lot of adjustment possible, a few thousandths of welding mis-alignment when attaching the cut-off can be "shimmed" out when the job is done, On older walking beam you have little to no adjustment possible.

On Neway there is a slotted hole on the front hangers, you align and weld the heavy washer to the hanger, You can move the axle forward or back.

 On Z spring there are shims that can be placed on the fore-aft torque rod either at the axle end (move the axle back) or at the hanger end (move axle forward) on all four attachments. It gives a lot of adjustment possible.

On walking beam, the OEM old style bushing were concentric and required the install to be right on the money, you can't correct after the fact. I guess aftermarket has some eccentric bushings for the through bolt style that will allow a little movement.

With my ARDAB the bushing have worn and the thrust alignment has suffered, it chews through steer tires 'cause the rears are trying to push the truck down the road sideways.

The spec for the mack camelback used to be 3/8 difference from side to side measured at the axle centers

If you drill the frame wrong and screw up the thrust angle, well you should have measured or 2 or 10 times before drilling