Antique Leece Neville alternator update kit

[Geoff Weeks]

Rather than clutter up the Fire Truck thread, I thought I'd post here.

Today I got the N.O.S. Leece Neville kit to update old selenium rectifier units to enclosed diodes like a modern unit. Very well made, and very serviceable.

Scanned Document.pdf

2.pdf

Scanned Document3.pdf

I never even knew these existed, and 75 years on must be scarcer then hens teeth.

For 12 volt I likely wouldn't bother, but for 6 volts, there aren't too many alternators available and this one is "from the period".

I would have been happy with a 48 amp Delco generator in 6 volt, but those don't come up often either.

This kit was along the lines of what I was going to try and make. Using Lexan to insulate JB2500 series rectifiers on the back case.

Comes with everything including new  brushes and a new ID tag!

[Joseph Cummings]

I was wondering when these were produced

 

[mowerman]

That’s the company that made my body shop spray gun

[Geoff Weeks]

The alternators themselves date back to the 40's at least.

Looking at the kit, it could be easily reproduced. The original rear cover could be machined, the hardest part would be the new stamped steel cover that would have to be made fairly accurately so to clear the electrical parts while still ducting cooling air over the diode blocks.

I checked, the JB series will fit but are "backwards" in that the solid part of the block covers the cooling air duct,These have the diode toward the outside, and the JB has the diodes toward the inside.

[Joseph Cummings]

54 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said:

The alternators themselves date back to the 40's at least.

I can't remember exactly what I saw those on back in the day, but it seemed like the really old crusty stuff way in the back of the yard with trees growing through the frame rails. And I had one in the parts room covered in dust complete with the selenium rectifier on a shelf in the back with a disk type Cummins pump next to it

[Geoff Weeks]

From what I remember, my unit came off a late 40's GMC tow truck. It still had the original genny on it as well, and the owner didn't want both.

[Joseph Cummings]

Funny I can remember exactly where that alternator sat on the shelf 40 years ago.

Old shop didn't fare so well though.

The part in the back had a manual overhead bridge crane in it. everything moved by pulling chains, it was handy

 

 

[Geoff Weeks]

Messy bench time:

Puller arrived today, and although the paperwork that came with the kit shows a 3 jaw puller, I think the correct 2 jaw might work better. Came apart HARD, but likely hasn't been apart in 75 years. Good news is the kit will mate the rear bearing with no mod's.

Bad news is the rear bearing really should be replaced. It is dry and I could possibly clean and re-lube, on the other hand I have it this far apart. As stated earlier, the bearing is inboard of the slip-rings, so they would have to come off to get at the bearing. Not sure I could get them off in one piece.

Interesting construction, the rotor is made in three parts front and rear shell and shaft. Big nuts hold the shells on the shaft and allow field replacement of the field coil, and even voltage changes by changing the field coil itself. Something not seen on modern units.

Stator is bar wound and very stout.

I'll likely pick up new bearings in town, then see if I can remove the slip rings in one piece, even the manual says that isn't always possible. If it seams like there is a problem, then I'll order two new rings and make sure they are correct before I go further.

[Geoff Weeks]

Well, I got the slip-rings and rear bearing off. P/S pulley puller got the outer slip ring, then I grabbed the rear bearing, but didn't realize there was a tiny snap ring between the bearing and inner slip ring (hidden behind a fiber washer and 75 years of crud) once that was off the inner slip ring and bearing came off together. Everything other then the bearings can be re-used.

Hardest part will be re-soldering the slip ring wires.

[Joseph Cummings]

How do the wires to the slip rings pass the bearing? Is there a grove in the shaft?

[Geoff Weeks]

yes, slot in shaft.

[Geoff Weeks]

New bearing installed, but ran into a snag, My soldering irons aren't big enough to heat the slip ring to get a good solder joint. I got them to release with a torch being very careful, and could likely get them back on the same way, but the stator bars need to un soldered and re soldered to wires. That is also going to require more heat than my electronics soldering iron can provide. Too much copper to dissipate the heat.

So I'm off to buy some good old fashion irons in the 100 watt range.

I took pictures of the slot and wooden "wedge" that goes under the bearing to hold the wires. Got the 1st slip-ring back on.

 I also took a picture of a JB series rectifier lay'd on the rear housing. If you could make the metal "can" to surround the rectifier and used Lexan sheet to insulate it from the rear casting, I think you could duplicate what I have. You need the "can" to direct air flow over and around the rectifier so it will cool.

 The next problem to solve is:

The truck wiring is not up to 100 amps of charge. The ammeter is 50 amps, and that is about all I want to put through it. I don't want a shunt type modern ammeter as it will detract from the truck's originality.

 I have the L/N 100 amp regulator, which looks internally like a normal generator regulator with the current regulator removed. There is a place for 3 bobbins but only two are installed. I have found some manuals that suggest that a current regulator was used on some installs.The current curve rises and then flat-lines at 55-60 amps.  Other current/speed curves show it continuing on up to the full 95 amps the unit is capable of.

 I think the chances of finding one of these regulators is about as good as finding another update kit! I can see no reason I can't use a 50 amp Delco, Ford or Autolite  regulator in place of the L/N.  I have done that before on alternators that I couldn't get regulators for.

One step at a time. I'll first get this back together then decide on how to control it. I don't need 95 amps of 7.2 volts. 50 would be more than enough. I think L/N also felt that way, but wanted the high output at low speed that an alternator can provide (unlike a generator).