EM6285 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 READING THE RECENT BULLDOG MAGAZINE I NOTICE SOME STORIES ABOUT MACK TRUCKS THAT SPORT AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS.I FIGURE THAT IF I GO TO BUY A SINGLE AXLE TRACTOR TO PULL A 30 FOOT TRAILER I SHOULD TRY GOING AUTOMATIC.BUT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY CLAIM THAT WITH AUTOMATICS YOU SAVE ON BRAKES, WHEN YOU HAVE TO GO HEAVY ON THE BRAKES ON AN AUTOMATIC APLICATION. WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION YOU JUST SHIFT-DOWN TO SLOW DOWN THE TRUCK.ARE THE AUTOMATICS A GOOD IDEA FOR A SINGLE AXLE TRACTOR THAT IS GOING TO PULL A 30 FOOT LONG TRAILER OR FLAT-BED ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 In my opinion, automatics are never a good idea, but that's just me.That said, today's heavy duty Allison automatics are engine brake compatible, you can put the engine brake on, and the transmission will downshift thru the gears 'til the truck comes to a stop. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 The Allison's automatically down shift when braking helping to slow the truck. Autos are very good for off road work, especially when playing in the dirt. Some dislike them some love them. One thing is certain though a newbie with an auto can be very dangerous. All they do is mash and go, god forbod they take a turn too hard and over the truck goes. If the driver is careful it shouldn't be a problem. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de37champ Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have a auto in my rollback and i have had some pretty good loads on back in the boonies, i like it myself, i have ran big off road trucks say 50 to 65 ton rock trucks with allisons that you can just run the crap out of them all day or night long in mud or soft dirt and they just go and go, i never used to like them but the older i get i like the easier way of doing things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYSLILGURL Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 the only issue u should have with the allisons is when it goes it GOES!!!!! they r expensive and a big ole headache! and theres really no way to baby then either! if i were you i would stick with a manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomaticMack Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I am sure this will ruffle a few feathers.... however Allisons are hands down the best trans out there. I put many miles on both manuals and autos on and off road, I have even had manuals and autos fail "the only reason the Allison Failed was the guy ran it low on fluid for an extended duration, and had cavitation in the pump" the cost equals out to be the same in the long run. The only thing to do with an Allison is to change the oil and filters. The Allison will flat out $hit and get while the other guy is having to make his shift. Power is un-interupted while accelerating. The initial cost is higher than your run of the mill manual, however it does pay in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dog Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) "I am sure this will ruffle a few feathers.... however Allisons are hands down the best trans out there. I put many miles on both manuals and autos on and off road, I have even had manuals and autos fail "the only reason the Allison Failed was the guy ran it low on fluid for an extended duration, and had cavitation in the pump" the cost equals out to be the same in the long run. The only thing to do with an Allison is to change the oil and filters. The Allison will flat out $hit and get while the other guy is having to make his shift. Power is un-interupted while accelerating. The initial cost is higher than your run of the mill manual, however it does pay in the long run. "anyone that knows anything will agree with this statement! well said! Edited January 12, 2009 by dirty dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Rider Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Most fire trucks have an Allison in 'em. When I was on a department we had a tanker/pumper combo that weighed about 50,000 lbs. Detroit 8V92 with an Allison, WOW!!! You would pull onto the apron, wait for the door to close, look for traffic, then mash the stupid pedal to the floor, and watch the speedo CLIMB! Yes an engine brake works with the Allison. It will hold the current gear and lock the torque converter on till it slows enough to downshift. Quote #1 on A-model registryIf I drink because of work, why can't I drink at work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM6285 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Share Posted January 13, 2009 THANKS FOR THE INFO ON AUTOMATICS. I SURE AM ONE OF THOSE GUYS WHO READ THE INSTRCUTION MANUALS THAT COME WITH ANY EQUIPMENT. ONE OF MY GUYS RUINED AN AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION ON A LITTLE TRUCK. (UD NISSAN DIESEL) WICH WAS HIS MISTAKE? FILLING THE TRANNY WITH THE WRONG OIL TYPE. SO HE OVER-COOKED IT. I AM VERY STRINGENT WITH THE MESSURES THAT I TOOK WITH PROPER EQUIPMENT MANTAINANCE.FOR THE AUTOMATIC MACK. I AM HELPING ONE OF MY FRIENDS, HE DRIVES A HUGE "COMPETITION" TRUCK WITH A HUGE SLEEPER AND A 53 FOOT VAN TRAILER. HE DELIVERS SUPLIES AND GROCERIES. NOW WE ARE MOVING INTO WHAT I CALL "ECONOMICS OF SCALE" THAT IS THE TRANSITION TO A SMALLER SINGLE AXLE TRACTOR (MACK PINNACLE-CH HOOD???) AND A 30 FOOT LONG REFEER /DRY VAN TRAILER. WHY THIS CHANGE???? WELL OF COURSE TO SAVE SOME $$$$$$HE DOES NOT NEED A HUGE TRUCK WITH A MONSTROUS HORSEPOWER ENGINE. AND NOW LARGE TRAILERS ARE BEING REPLACED BY SMALLER ONES, THUS THE CHANGE FROM A 53 FOOT TRAILER TO A 30 FOOOT TRAILER. AND HE DOES NOT NEED THE HUGE TRUCK TO PULL A SMALL TRAILER.SO AN ENGINE WITH MODEST HORSEPOWER RANGE (325-485) AND A SINGLE AXLE TRACTOR WITH A 30 FOOT TRAILER WILL BE A PERFECT COMBO.IF TRUCK AND TRAILER ARE SINGLE AXLE THAT TRANSLATES TO SAVING SOME $$$$$$ AT THE TOLL (THE MORE AXLES A COMBINATION VEHICLE HAS, THE MORE IT PAYS AT THE TOLL)IF HE DOES NOT WANT THE AUTOMATIC....CAN HE STILL GET A 5 SPEED MANUAL MACK TRANNY??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dog Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 yes the t2050 mack trans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dog Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 with all the syncro updates the mack trans is bullet proof.just have to keep up with maintenance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackmann Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I know alot of dump trucks in my area are going auto. I think there may be more autos sitting on dealer lots then sticks. I have driven an auto 1 time and i got to say it was nice. But it does suck the fuel down. The only time i wish i had an auto is when I'm under a milling machine. Other then that i will stick with my 8LL. Quote My Facebook. Feel free to add me as a friend. Just tell me your from BMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Allisons are great for garabge truck and some "state dept. dump trucks" but the cost usually adds around $25000 to the already high price, that is why you dont see very many Allisons in CH and CX trucks. The next best thing is the Eaton Autoshift and newer "clutch pedal-less" Ultrashift. We see alot of both lately, some of our customers will only buy Mack road tractors with the Auto shift trans. We have see alot of CXU's with the Ultrashift and the drivers seem to love them. They dont add much to the cost of a new truck either. The Autoshift uses a standard clutch while the Ultrashift uses a special style clutch. For the standard dump truck I would only recommend a Mack T300 series trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutomaticMack Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Try this with a 8LL or an autoshift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq7T4ZnvqV8...feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvWPRpF_CTg...feature=related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greendog32 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 i have a ally in my new truck.traded up from a 12spd in my old one.i love the auto and wouldnt go back,but it does use alot more fuel then a manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PedroR Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 one of the companies i work with has 2 granites with the alissons i drove one for 10 minutes so im not going to say if there good or bad but il say this, there really quick on take off, another thing this company has around 10 drivers and they are always jumping around from truck to truck, never see them in the shop for trans problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackmann Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 (edited) Try this with a 8LL or an autoshift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq7T4ZnvqV8...feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvWPRpF_CTg...feature=relatedTo the 1st video you posted. I guess i would stick it in the low hole and use the trolley brake and 2 foot the clutch and the gas. But of course i would try not to stop to begin with. Once i got started i would not even try to shift. Just ride it out in low gear.To the 2nd video i think a stick shift could do just as good as a auto in that video. ( i said i think don't do much driving in pea gravel so i wouldn't know) Edited January 16, 2009 by Mackmann Quote My Facebook. Feel free to add me as a friend. Just tell me your from BMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Try this with a 8LL or an autoshift.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq7T4ZnvqV8...feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvWPRpF_CTg...feature=relatedAutomatics are just a "fad".Manual is the only way to go.. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packer Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I've been waiting for our friend from "Down Under" to jump in here!!!!Real men use two sticks!Packer Quote Keep a clutchin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I've been waiting for our friend from "Down Under" to jump in here!!!!Real men use two sticks!PackerAmen!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 I know alot of dump trucks in my area are going auto. I think there may be more autos sitting on dealer lots then sticks. I have driven an auto 1 time and i got to say it was nice. But it does suck the fuel down. The only time i wish i had an auto is when I'm under a milling machine. Other then that i will stick with my 8LL.I have seen Penske trucks governed by making the rear ratio so high you were at 60~65 mph running against the governor on a 2500 RPM CAT C-7. They got 4 MPG with a 7 liter engine ! That retarded setup pissed me off every time we rented one of those.Automatics are just a "fad".Manual is the only way to go.Haha just like electricity. But seriously it looks like Auto's will one day become standard and we will have to pay big premiums for manual trannys. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD40T2 Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I have spent many hours in automatic trucks when I was in the waste buisness and find nothing wrong with them especially doing start and stop driving, properly maintained the Allisons are bullet proof, however running the highway doing heavy haul now I prefer having the ability to pick my gear as opposed to having it chosen for me. I would like to try one of the clutch pedalless transmissions though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavyhauler Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I have spent many hours in automatic trucks when I was in the waste buisness and find nothing wrong with them especially doing start and stop driving, properly maintained the Allisons are bullet proof, however running the highway doing heavy haul now I prefer having the ability to pick my gear as opposed to having it chosen for me. I would like to try one of the clutch pedalless transmissions though.I put myself through university driving a 50 ton rock hauler every summer some years ago. The ramp to the primary crusher was quite steep from the quarry floor and with the semi-automatic Allison, you could either select the gear or let the transmission do it for you. We ran those transmissions day and night and some of the guys I worked with were pretty rough on equipment but those Allisons were bullet proof. They ran and ran and ran without one problem. No doubt they were overhauled at times but not during the summers that I worked. I was, to say the least, very impressed and I really enjoyed the speed and ease of driving the truck with those transmissions. Regards,John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaddeusW Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The torque converter is the key to smooth operation. ZF of Europe has a torque converter add on for their transmissions called the WSK. Used frequently in heavy haul, the WSK allows you to come off the clutch and get smooth acceleration with no jearking on the driveline. Some models can be fully locked up and they all feature an integrated retarder to aid in stopping. It mounts to the engine like an auto would and then has a flywheel like housing so the manual bolts right up. It moves the tranny back about 12 or so inches but they run cabovers with cable shifters so its not so much a problem for Europe. Would be nice if Allison or Eaton would make one for the US market. Then any manual box can have the automatic smoothness in terms of acceleration. Quote -Thad What America needs is less bull and more Bulldog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ducky698 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The torque converter is the key to smooth operation. ZF of Europe has a torque converter add on for their transmissions called the WSK. Used frequently in heavy haul, the WSK allows you to come off the clutch and get smooth acceleration with no jearking on the driveline. Some models can be fully locked up and they all feature an integrated retarder to aid in stopping. It mounts to the engine like an auto would and then has a flywheel like housing so the manual bolts right up. It moves the tranny back about 12 or so inches but they run cabovers with cable shifters so its not so much a problem for Europe. Would be nice if Allison or Eaton would make one for the US market. Then any manual box can have the automatic smoothness in terms of acceleration.The Eaton 18speed auto with clutch pedal is horrible, it never knows what gear it should have, the Volvo auto is not to bad, it just needs more gears.Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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