Pot Metal Repair

[Mike]

Has anyone heard of or tried a product called Muggy Weld? if you go to their web-site you will see it being done. They are rejoining broken parts for re-use. No need to throw away that broken emblem etc. They use a propane torch, flux solder and Super Alloy 1.

mike

[LocomotiveBreath]

I haven't seen that one, but I did try the aluminum repair rod that is done using a propane torch. I didn't have much luck with that one, the tig produces much better results.

[Mike]

Try that web-site out. You can see a short video of their process.

mike

[LocomotiveBreath]

I went to the website. It looks a lot like the aluminum repair rod I tried. Are you going to give it a try?

[Mike]

I'm tempted to but if you noticed, looks as if you have to buy their rods. I'll call them when I see a phone number. I have several emblems that need to be salvaged, but until I have it mastered, i'll have to stay with the basics. I'll have to check with my local machine shop and see if they know about this process. Someone out there may know about this, but are staying quiet. I won't give any names out, to keep from being called a name dropper. We do have some GURU"S in our mack society, you know. I haven't heard from in a few days. They may be working on some radar equipment, or fixing a plumbing job. Stay tuned for more ACTION and ADVENTURE.

mike

p.s. Do you go by LocomotiveBreath, or do you have a first name?

[Rob]

I'm tempted to but if you noticed, looks as if you have to buy their rods. I'll call them when I see a phone number. I have several emblems that need to be salvaged, but until I have it mastered, i'll have to stay with the basics. I'll have to check with my local machine shop and see if they know about this process. Someone out there may know about this, but are staying quiet. I won't give any names out, to keep from being called a name dropper. We do have some GURU"S in our mack society, you know. I haven't heard from in a few days. They may be working on some radar equipment, or fixing a plumbing job. Stay tuned for more ACTION and ADVENTURE.

mike

p.s. Do you go by LocomotiveBreath, or do you have a first name?

Sporting a high fever most of this week. Finally under 100, and feel like dogshit on pavement in the Australian "Outback" during the dry season.

Most of the pot metal repair "rods" are inherintly weak due to their composition. Just think, if it will melt with the low btu content of propane gas, (92-95,000 btu per gallon), it is not very strong. What I'm saying is that the shock loading, (vibration) that emblems mounted to the hood of a truck endure, will fatigue the repair over time. BTDT.

"Tig" welding with a low nickel content rod is best with an experienced welder. This way the repair can be dispersed in a wider area than just the shear plane. Nickel based filler rod is a relatively soft metal that readily bonds to other base metals and materials. You need the proper amount of heat to do the repair; Unobtainable with propane solely, in my opinion.

You can use oxy/acetylene torch to do the repair but the heat needed usually distorts small parts. Tig, concentrates the heat in the needed are quickly.

Rob

[other dog]

Sporting a high fever most of this week. Finally under 100, and feel like dogshit on pavement in the Australian "Outback" during the dry season.

Most of the pot metal repair "rods" are inherintly weak due to their composition. Just think, if it will melt with the low btu content of propane gas, (92-95,000 btu per gallon), it is not very strong. What I'm saying is that the shock loading, (vibration) that emblems mounted to the hood of a truck endure, will fatigue the repair over time. BTDT.

"Tig" welding with a low nickel content rod is best with an experienced welder. This way the repair can be dispersed in a wider area than just the shear plane. Nickel based filler rod is a relatively soft metal that readily bonds to other base metals and materials. You need the proper amount of heat to do the repair; Unobtainable with propane solely, in my opinion.

You can use oxy/acetylene torch to do the repair but the heat needed usually distorts small parts. Tig, concentrates the heat in the needed are quickly.

Rob

Gee Rob, hope you're feeling better...almost makes me feel bad for picking on you just to see your response.

I did a lot of "mig" (metal-inert gas) welding on aluminum, but never "tig". I've seen it done before though, and it's really neat. You can almost weld wreynolds wrap with a tig torch.

[Rob]

Gee Rob, hope you're feeling better...almost makes me feel bad for picking on you just to see your response.

I did a lot of "mig" (metal-inert gas) welding on aluminum, but never "tig". I've seen it done before though, and it's really neat. You can almost weld wreynolds wrap with a tig torch.

I used to practice on soda cans with no problems. Can almost do aluminum foil, but need a smaller electrode, which requires a smaller torch.

Rob

I must have missed you picking on me. Usually don't miss things like that.

I have been sick. Seen 103.7 several times this week.

Rob

[Mike]

Rob,

I was getting worried about you. Thought MOMMA dun sompin to ya head. Ya got a fever. Hope ya did'nt sleep too close to a crack. LOL..... Hope ya get to feeling better soon. It was getting rather flat around the site without ya humor and charm. Sorry, got to check on the boiler in this building.

mike

[Rob]

Rob,

I was getting worried about you. Thought MOMMA dun sompin to ya head. Ya got a fever. Hope ya did'nt sleep too close to a crack. LOL..... Hope ya get to feeling better soon. It was getting rather flat around the site without ya humor and charm. Sorry, got to check on the boiler in this building.

mike

Woke up freezing in a pool of sweat this morning and temp has been down since. Thank God for the rubber liner on the matress. Still very groggy as of now. Didn't even rise from bed yesterday to piss. Been doing a LOT of sleeping. Momma stayed home from work to care for me, (and you wonder why I keep her).

This nasty deep cough in my chest hurts like hell, (simmilar to alcohol dumped on road rash), but that seems to be subsiding also.

Should be back to normal in a couple of days.

Rob

[other dog]

I used to practice on soda cans with no problems. Can almost do aluminum foil, but need a smaller electrode, which requires a smaller torch.

Rob

I must have missed you picking on me. Usually don't miss things like that.

I have been sick. Seen 103.7 several times this week.

Rob

seems to me in was in the "air ride seat wanted" department

[Rob]

seems to me in was in the "air ride seat wanted" department

I'll have to look. I need a couple of other parts also.

Rob

[LocomotiveBreath]

p.s. Do you go by LocomotiveBreath, or do you have a first name?

Kevin will be fine and is probably faster to type.

I have successfully made many cast iron repairs using the TIG and Nickle filler rod. I've never tried using a Nickle rod on pot metal though. I might just dig thru my junk, see if I can find an old emblem and give it a try.

Rob, I recently started using a gas lens on my TIG torch and have really been impressed with the results. Have you tried one yet? Sounds like the flu or maybe you inhaled too many unburned diesel fumes, either way hope you get to feeling better soon.

[Rob]

p.s. Do you go by LocomotiveBreath, or do you have a first name?

Kevin will be fine and is probably faster to type.

I have successfully made many cast iron repairs using the TIG and Nickle filler rod. I've never tried using a Nickle rod on pot metal though. I might just dig thru my junk, see if I can find an old emblem and give it a try.

Rob, I recently started using a gas lens on my TIG torch and have really been impressed with the results. Have you tried one yet? Sounds like the flu or maybe you inhaled too many unburned diesel fumes, either way hope you get to feeling better soon.

I've used a gas lens for years as it is a part of the torch the best I can tell. The nozzle threads to it and the collet is through the center. Are you referring to something else by chance? Maybe getting away from the alumina gas nozzle? My torch is a Weldcraft 20 that is water cooled, and I have a Procon cooler that is older. The tig machine is a Lincoln Tig 300/300 transformer type. I've thought about upgrading to a later style machine, but don't use it enough to justify the cost. I typically only have 3/32 electrode in both 2% thiorated, and pure tungsten. This covers all of my needs. Straight Argon is about the only shielding gas used.

I don't hardly ever go above 150 amps so the shielding gas flow rate at about 35cfh is adequate. If you are above that I'm sure a gas lens that provides turbulence to the shielding gas flow would be beneficial.

Rob

[Mike]

Kevin,

I have several broken B Model emblems that I found today. They have great chrome but cannot see how I can use them. I was told to try a clear silicone sealer. I can't see that doing a good job holding them letters on a vibrating vehicle. I'll take the emblems by monday evening, local machine shop to see what they suggest. I could use some good luck once in awhile.

mike

[Rob]

Kevin,

I have several broken B Model emblems that I found today. They have great chrome but cannot see how I can use them. I was told to try a clear silicone sealer. I can't see that doing a good job holding them letters on a vibrating vehicle. I'll take the emblems by monday evening, local machine shop to see what they suggest. I could use some good luck once in awhile.

mike

Mike, don't discount the clear silicone sealer working. It will work as well as trying to stay dry as you piss in a high speed rotating fan; Honest.

With a broken script emblem such as Thermodyne, Diesel, Mack etc. there is no way to make the repair yet salvage the existing chrome. In fact a repair facility will not make the repair until the plating is removed. These emblems are cast from scrap, (literally) with an unknown composition of the contents of the molten vat when poured. They are full of "blow holes" and when heat is applied to them, they tend to expand sometimes "popping" the plating with holes.

After stripping, and thorough cleaning, they can be drilled in the pits to remove corrosion, then ground smooth in the areas of breakage, and then silver soldered together again. This can very well cause more blow holes to form which have to be repaired also. There is really no way around this and it can become quite expensive. Then after the repair is complete, the finish grinding to final form can take place. As you can tell these are very labor intensive processes that equate to a lot of money expended on short order.

But, sometimes you do get lucky.

Rob

[LocomotiveBreath]

Here is what I'm talking about. Up until about a month ago I always used the standard collet body.

[LocomotiveBreath]

I agree with Rob on the silicone, it works well for things like that. I sometimes use it for adjustment screws and things that are subject to lots of vibration but you can't really tighten much.

Silicone is also better than Saline in certain other applications as well.

[Rob]

Here is what I'm talking about. Up until about a month ago I always used the standard collet body.

Hi Kevin, the photo you post is of a "Weldcraft" style tig torch display. The gas lens is the part at the lower right of the photo with both internal, and external threads. The long, thin piece of copper is the collet that retains the electrode. Then the white ring is the insulator bushing, and of course the pink nozzle. There are more than one style but the alumina nozzle displayed is for the higher current draws and gas flows. These are of common usage above the current amount I use. Typically I use a -6 nozzle on my torch. I think the -8's and above are bell mouthed such as displayed. These form the "cloud" of shielding gas around the welding zone helping to ensure impurities from the surrounding air is excluded, and to borrow the term from a prior post, proper "edge wetting" takes place. (I don't think Underdog thought that term actually existed without derogatory reference to female genitalia). All in good fun though.

I assume you are either a rail yard worker, or pipeliner? Some type of maintenance repair entity participant?

Not many folks I know actually use the higher currents spoken of without the need for X-Ray quality welds using the tig process as the deposition rate is very slow in comparison to either mig, or stick.

Rob

[Rob]

Kevin,

I have several broken B Model emblems that I found today. They have great chrome but cannot see how I can use them. I was told to try a clear silicone sealer. I can't see that doing a good job holding them letters on a vibrating vehicle. I'll take the emblems by monday evening, local machine shop to see what they suggest. I could use some good luck once in awhile.

mike

If the silicone was meant as an insulating medium to vibration; I would not use the conventional type on the hood as heat relaxes the grip silicone achieves upon curing. There are high heat clear type silicones out there that may work, (look at furnace pipe silicone sealant that is rated at 1500 degrees). If your studs are intact on the rear of the parts, you could use a double sided adhesive foam moulding tape, (white is the highest tack) and razor blade out around the scripting to get an acceptable job though not OEM, but perfectly acceptable on a Pete.

There are a couple more options for you to ponder.

Rob

[Mike]

This past friday morning I called Kevin with all macks and purchased his used set of emblems. I'm just waiting on UPS truck to bring them monday. So what you are saying.....is the old emblems are trash. G/f needing me got ta go.

mike

[Rob]

This past friday morning I called Kevin with all macks and purchased his used set of emblems. I'm just waiting on UPS truck to bring them monday. So what you are saying.....is the old emblems are trash. G/f needing me got ta go.

mike

Maybe not, just can be expensive to repair. Let me see some decent photos and I may be able to judge closer.

Rob

[LocomotiveBreath]

I assume you are either a rail yard worker, or pipeliner? Some type of maintenance repair entity participant?

Not many folks I know actually use the higher currents spoken of without the need for X-Ray quality welds using the tig process as the deposition rate is very slow in comparison to either mig, or stick.

Rob

You are correct. I previously have always used a standard "collet holder" if you will. The gas lens style basically gives a bubble of shielding gas around the weld which helps to produce some really nice welds. I normally use straight Argon as well, but if I'm doing 1/4"+ thick aluminum I will switch over to 75% Argon / 25% Helium.

I am a locomotive fleet manager, and occasionally have to qualify welds. I also do some custom fabrication with aluminum and stainless while at work and at my personal shop which requires the tig to be brought out. I hold certifications for mig and stick in the 6G position, just in case I ever need to do a little pipeline welding to pay the bills.

Kevin

[other dog]

Silicone is also better than Saline in certain other applications as well.

here's a good example...

[LocomotiveBreath]

here's a good example...

Money well spent.